Welcome And Positivity As Strategy

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Today I have Melanie Kerr, is known as the Positivity Expert. Now, her work centered on building positive, resilient people, leaders and teams through emotional intelligence. And I believe her philosophy is that positivity is not simply about being cheerful, it can be a strategic advantage that improves how people and teams perform. I had to take a breath there, Melanie.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

You were being so positive, you see. I love that. Good morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Good morning. Nice to have you. And I'm just so excited that you said yes. And for someone like you that's super busy, that's super involved with so many different things, to come and share your message today with our listeners. I'm just so, so, so excited to hear your story. So thank you, Melanie. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Thank you. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Do you want to do your own brief introduction? What's your background and where you've descended from?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Oh, well, yeah, thank you. So, uh, first of all, I was really thrilled to receive the invite, and it was it's been lovely to connect with you. I I am absolutely all about connection, and I totally believe that people are wired for connection, and and so we seek each other out, and when we find beautiful connections, it's really important to nurture them. So my background is I grew up in a place called Taneatua in Ruatuki, which is in the eastern Bay of Plenty, which is right up near to Uruwera, which is I lived, I grew up beyond the confiscation line, which was way back, kind of where Tamaidi shot the flag and where the Tuhoy raids happened. That's how people sort of know where I'm from. And I grew up there. I I went to school in Fakatane, and and then when I was 17, I left New Zealand to live for five years in the outback of Western Australia, where I worked for nearly five years on a 1.3 million acre cattle station, and our nearest neighbours were 60 K's away. And so we had to back in those days, you had to use a fax machine to fax through your order to the supermarket, and the mail truck would come once every two weeks and deliver your groceries, and it was it was remote, and it was it was an incredible place. I think you it's hard to describe the barrenness of the of the landscape unless you've been there, and yet in that bar apparently barren landscape, life thrives. And what used to always amaze me, and I think that Western Australia is well known for it, that you can be in the desert one day and the rains come, and literally the next day you wake up and the and the the the vast fields are covered in wildflowers that seem to disappear from nowhere. I think that's such a beautiful analogy as well, and we can be going through kind of hard times and and then a little sprinkle of sunshine or a sprinkle of rain comes into our lives, and you know, we and things can blossom where there was nothing.

From Outback Wildflowers To TVNZ

SPEAKER_01 3:05

So yeah, came back home and I worked for seven years as one of the hosts on the Good Morning Show on TVNZ's Good Morning. I was the host of the advertori, which meant that I was beaming into sort of thousands of homes around the around the country every single day for seven years, and then that was incredible work. And I've I've built up my broadcasting in live radio and television, and um sort of eight years ago we moved to Dunedin to which was supposed to be for nine months, but Dunedin has a way of bewitching us, and so we're now eight years into it, and so yeah, we've been here for eight years, we've been restoring a beautiful old home, and for eight years I've been working full-time as a funeral celebrant. So developing my connections with families in grief and leading thousands with broken hearts through the process of funeral. In the last 18 months, I've been leaning back into my work as a professional speaker. I've developed a Wii philosophy that I call a Sprinkle of Sunshine, SOS, a Sprinkle of Sunshine, which is a mental health and well-being framework that is based upon the lessons that walking alongside death and grief has taught me about living. And so I've been leaning into taking that message into the corporate space, which is going incredibly well. And and I'm still like even this afternoon, Zeboniso, as we as we talked earlier, I have to leave to go and officiate a funeral this afternoon. So I'm still doing my funeral work and I work, I I travel all around New Zealand doing that, but um I'm leaning back into that, helping people to find the things of beauty that sustain them um in whatever line of work they do and and building more positive and beautiful connections with people. So yeah, well, I've said that all in a five minutes, didn't I?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

I love it. I absolutely love it. I think it's so, so important. The line of work that you do to go, especially with the funerals, I think you know, it's it's a moment of extreme vulnerability for people where the emotions are raw, where they've just lost their loved ones, and it could be an absolute infant baby, and two up to someone that had a whole lifetime. So, how do you honor them in a way that represents the family values? I think there's just an incredible honor for you to be walking alongside for people with people when they're going through those darkest times and seeing that ray of sunshine that that life mattered, and that soul is probably just gonna be now watching over them for the rainbow.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

It's so interesting, Zeboniso, because we go from is to was boom, like that, you know. Um Fred is, you know, this Fred was, and that's how like I've I've stood alongside people in grief. I tend to just yeah, reflecting on what you just said about you know, funerals for babies, I do tend to get disproportionate amount, I think, of tragic services. So I am navigating and walking alongside people at their most vulnerable, and oftentimes in those three days, three to five days preceding someone's passing, I'm in the family home with them as they as their heads come to terms with well, their hearts come to terms with what their head knows. So it is a real, it's a real privilege, and it's also it's not it's not something I ever take for granted. The what what my work has done is that it has enabled me to go into the homes of, you know, like from politicians to gang members, you know, grandmothers to infants, you know, like I'm I'm in mixing in everyone's world, and I think that that is one of the lessons that death has absolutely taught me is that every single one of us has an expiry date printed on our lids and we can't see it. And so I think death is the great leveler. It doesn't matter whether you're rich or poor, young or old, you know, it it can come to us, and so just kind of as I go through my life, sort of reinforcing that fact that life is so precious and every moment, every moment counts. However, if you say that, it sounds like I'm real goody-goody going through life or perfect, and every moment counts. But you know, you get caught up in the hustle and bustle and hurry of life, and you know, you get cut off at the traffic lights, or or people annoy you. You know, of course, it's not about being perfect, it's just about kind of remembering that everyone has a story to tell, everyone is going through something that we don't know about, and so exercising grace and and yeah, and and choosing positivity.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

I love that you're pretty much answering all my questions as you're talking, and I'm like, wait, that was my question. I'm a bit of a chatterbox, can you tell? No. I actually I actually do remember you on TV as well. So uh I think yeah, years ago when I used to have TV, I don't even have TV channels anymore, and I don't even watch TV these days. Well, do you know what?

SPEAKER_01 8:23

We've raised we have three sons and we've raised all of our boys without television. So even when I was on the Good Morning Show, we never had TV in our house. We still don't we have a TV, but it's not connected, we'd never even look at it. And so that it was the funniest thing. I'd go to work because my section was pre-recorded. So I would I would be on tally every day from 9 till 12 when the show was on. But I would be, because my section was pre-recorded, I'd just go in and film, and then I'd be home with my boys or whatever, and you'd be like, I had this funny experience where I was sitting at the airport, and then the good morning show was on, and the on the big screen, the the guys from the cafe where I was sitting had stopped to have their morning tea. And that then I came on TV and they were like looking at me and looking at the TV, and then they were nudging each other, and then they cracked up laughing, and it was like, oh yeah, that's so funny because people assume. I think it's even true these days now with social media, you can pop something up that happened, you know, weeks ago, even years ago, and people go, Oh, congratulations, that's amazing. People take in through their eyes what they see, and they just assume that it's here and now. And so it was always quite funny to have little interactions like that with people when they'd see you off off air, like, oh, you're much smaller in real life, or oh, I don't like how they did your hair yesterday. And I think the good thing about that is it taught me that it's it's all about me and it's nothing to do with me. Do you know what I mean? So when you're presenting yourself to the public, as even as we're doing here and now to your beautiful audience, they will see and perceive whatever they're going to see and perceive because we can only we can only demonstrate the love and the truth that's in our hearts, and and other people are going to take that or or or leave it. And and I think I learned that a lot from my time at TVNZ that because they they'd cut my hair a certain way and they'd that you know, like I had to wear a certain colour, and there were certain continuity issues that we had to adhere to, and you know, being as it's the national broadcaster, there's a certain kind of look that they wanted. Things have changed a lot. So Good Morning's been off-air for nearly 10 years now. So things have changed a lot in the way of television, and I think it's for a it's for the better.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah, that's good. That's good to hear. Because one of my thoughts when, you know, I knew you worked at television was is that where a lot of resilience come from? Is that where you've built a lot of that resilience? Or take me back where where you've decided that, yeah, that that's what I need to have in my life?

The 11-Year-Old Choice To Notice Beauty

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Oh, that's a really good question. And I can tell you exactly, and it's a strange story, but it's going back many, many, many years to when I was 11 years old on the school bus, driving from Fakatane back home to Taneato and Teruatoki. And I remember things were a little turbulent in my family at home, my home life when I was a wee girl, and I come from a very loving family, but things were bump, were rocky, and I remember feeling at the age of 11, I can tell you absolutely, I remember thinking there's too much heartache and too much sadness in the world. I'm I don't want to contribute to that. I'm gonna notice one little lamb in the paddock because I grew up rurally, or on the school bus, I'm gonna notice one leaf on the tree or one flower. And what I didn't realise I was doing then, but I know now, is I was training my amygdala to seek patterns, to seek beauty and to look for the unnoticed, to be able to exclaim and and magnify beauty in in places where it's often overlooked. And I know now that that little girl on the school bus actually started a trend that was has continued through my life. Um so when I talk about being the positivity expert, it's not it's not something that's just happened, that's a dedicated choice. And as I've leaned into it more in the last kind of eight years with my full-time funeral work, it's been a choice that I've had to adhere to rigorously because my work is so challenging and sometimes so heavy and sometimes even so dark that if I didn't choose aggressive positivity and if I didn't choose beauty every day, I I tell you I would not want to get out of bed. And there are some mornings I still feel like that. Like, what is this all about when I've officiated a you know a funeral for a young person that's taken their own life or you know, like or a car accident? I just see how much heartache people carry, you know, just in the day-to-day. And so, yeah, so that's a very long answer to your very short question.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

I loved it. You know, it always puzzles me. How do how do we get that information? Like, where does it coming from? You know, how do we download that at the age of 11, at the age of seven, at the age of five? You know, I I talk to a lot of adults now. And when I ask them those questions, a lot of things tend to come from childhood. And a lot of things come not from their household. It's not something that their parents have taught them or their peers, it's something that they sort of downloaded into their brains and went, oh, I'm gonna do this now. And then seeing the effects of that having in their lives has been really, really incredible for me. In terms of your work, I mean, every time I think about what you do, I I think you strike me as a very empathetic person. Yes. And it would be quite because I'm quite empathetic, and I know what you were meaning about being aggressively positive about things. Because if we don't, I mean, my work is not as bad. And I deal with a lot of crises in people's living lives where you know they go and put an offer on a house without having a proper approval in place. And I have to make sure I go through all those firefighting for them and get them those approvals because their livelihood is on the line, their finances on the line. And if we don't get that deal across the line for them, then you know a lot of things may fall apart. So for me, I tend to also be quite cautious about the stresses I'm taking upon myself and making sure that I distress them, but also don't take their stress on me and learn how to function with that in a in a way that will be productive for everyone involved.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

They need to really see you as someone calm and in control and someone that they can trust. And I guess in that way, um your your line of work and my line of work are similar. And it's it's not about being more or less like the stresses that you deal with in your clients' lives. It's subjective, Zeboniso, because for them at that moment that's the biggest thing in their life, and that is that's so you for you to provide that, be the lighthouse for them in that time and to provide your calm insight and your guidance, it's very similar to what I do. And I think, and and then to as you say, to to learn not to take on board their stresses. Well, there's a you you you mentioned the word empathy, there is a distinction between empathy and compassion, and empathy is the ability to feel another person's emotion, and compassion is the urge to to work towards actionable intervention to help them through. So you're providing empathy, of course, but your empathy alone is not enough. You you're providing compassionate care for them and guidance. And so for us, for all of us in our lines of work, you know, there'll be people watching this who can think, oh, well, I'm, you know, maybe I'm a I sell cars or or maybe I'm a school teacher, or maybe I'm a librarian. Every single one of us has our own stresses that we carry, and they are subjective to us. So if so the librarian's stresses or the car dealers' stresses, they are important, just as important as the work I do, but it's different. And so I think that we all need to definitely what you said about standing alongside others in their distress or concern or excitement as it might be, and and feeling all of those things with them, but also providing a potent neutrality. So that is where my power is in my work, that I can stand, stand here and be with you and feel this with you, but I have work to do. I'm gonna lead you now from this moment into this moment over here and and shift you. So I provide a space for this to happen, and it's what you do, Zeboniso. You you provide a space for this to happen, this transaction, this, and then you move people to the next moment. So it's quite similar.

Positivity Versus Pretending It’s Fine

SPEAKER_00 17:34

I love that. Now, one thing a lot of people question, you know, around positivity, but also pretending that everything is okay. How can we distinguish the two? Because I think that's very important to showcase that those two things are completely different things in my mind. Being positive and pretending that everything is okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Oh, that's so that's so insightful. You're so smart. You are you're beautiful and smart. So so for me, absolutely. And as I as I speak to my audience, whether that be on stage or on podcasts such as this, I always make the distinction because you can positivity can be seen as like wishful thinking or or just you know fluff. But for me, it's a strategic advantage and it's the way that I manage to get out of bed every day. So the difference, I think, that you have to be very clear in saying that it's the most positive people aren't the ones for whom life has gone perfectly. They're not the ones who have just sailed through life and everything is great. You know, then nor are they the ones who put their heads in the sand and just go, ah, everything's fine. Just smile, smile. You know, it'll it'll all be all right tomorrow. No, because you have to acknowledge the tragedy and the heartache and the grief or the stress as it may be pertaining to your line of work. You have to acknowledge that before that you before and lean into that before you can make the conscious choice. And this is where the discipline of positivity, of practicing the art of positivity, this is where this comes in. So you acknowledge the heartache, the grief, the loss, the stress, and you you let that you let yourself feel that and you allow yourself time and space. You have to. It's a part of our processing and healing, but then you make the active choice to step out of that and to look and seek beauty. When I speak about positivity, I speak of it being like a muscle. The I say, if you could see my posity muscle, I'd be like a big, strong, you know, person that goes to the gym every day. And just like someone who goes to the gym every day, they didn't get big and strong and resilient by just going to the gym once or twice. That's a committed discipline. And so for me, positivity is a committed discipline. So it's not about wishful thinking, it's about actively reinforcing that what I know to be true, that if we see beauty when it's easy to be seen, if we seek it when it's hard to find, and if we at all times share it, we are every time we do that, we are building up our own resilience, we are building up, we're lowering our cortisol. There's studies around neuro aesthetics, and it's uh the that's the study of beauty and the the effect that beauty has on us, and even micro moments of beauty can cause a positive reaction in anyone's life, any any day, but especially when we're in times of stress. I mean, look at my crazy this house, and so to to practice that beauty, I surround myself with, you know, some people might say it's some people might say it's clutter and madness, but for me, I just I surround myself with things that I find beautiful because in that it's there there is that sense of healing that comes from beauty.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

I wish you could see what my windowsill looks like. I've got from this from the sounding ball to beautiful little knick-knicks from my country to plants to a cocktail candle. So 100% I agree. Surrounding myself as those pieces ground me. And I love texture, I love smells, I love sounds. So for me, in order to ground myself and bring myself back to the place where I can function, I have to touch something, or I have to smell something, or I have to hear something. And I think that's really important for that neurological brain pathways to go through that experience. For those that are listening, how like if they know someone right now, that maybe a friend, maybe a family member going through stress, through whatever overload. And I mean, we are living in a bit of an uncertain time right now where the elections are coming up later this year. And a lot of people are feeling a little bit uncertain about life and what next year looks like for them. What sort of one piece of advice that you could share from your programs of SOS in terms of the practical tools they can use starting today?

Practical SOS For Stressful Times

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Well for support items.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

And I think that we do tend to, as busy professional people, we tend to put ourselves at the bottom of the list because I know for myself, you know, if I'm running from this appointment to that appointment, I know it's going to actually be a struggle to get out of bed and go for a walk early. And sometimes I just don't want to, and sometimes I won't. But I know if I don't practice taking care of myself in those little ways, it will take a toll. When it comes to the uncertainty around business and finances and you know the GDP and all of the things that probably concern you and a lot of your clients, I think that we need to recognize what we can change and what we cannot. And when we recognize what we can change, I there's probably, I'm I'm not very a very financial person, like in so much as I don't understand, you know, I'm not learned about those things, but there's probably graphs and you you can probably explain it better where there are there are circumstances that we all live in the globally, and and I think that for me personally, I'm not I my work relies on being engaged by corporates to come and share my knowledge with their teams. When times are tough and and corporates are feeling the pinch, they're less and they they don't get me wrong, most corporates in New Zealand know the benefit of pouring back into their team. But when times are tough, you know, sometimes it's it's things like this that get kind of maybe pushed out till next year or next year, and that impacts my income as well. So I think that you just have to recognise and realise what you can change, what you can't, and be dexterous. So if you feel like you you had your heart set on this, you know, I I do believe to a certain extent that we we predetermine our own destiny, but we are destined, if you know what I'm saying, it's kind of a bit of a juxtaposition there. But so I think if we if we have this goal, be it the financial goal or with our business, and we have it there on the wall in front of us, there are many ways to get to this goal. We tend to think we want to go like this straight to the goal, but I think we need to just be dexterous and be trust life's ups and downs and ebbs and flows. And sometimes I think that what we think is best for us is not really what life has planned, you know, that and that might sound a bit woo-woo, but and I'm I'm not meaning to sound that way because I'm very much a pragmatic kind of we, you know, hard workers create more luck for themselves, if you know what I'm saying. But I think that yeah, maybe taking a bit of pressure, take your foot off the gas a little bit sometimes, yeah.

Workplace Negativity Boundaries And Caring Leaders

SPEAKER_00 25:55

It's funny, it's funny you went into the leadership in teams and companies because that was going to be my next question to you. Is you know what impact does it have when you have workers that are negative, the staff members? Like how do they impact the companies and what can the company leaders can do about it?

SPEAKER_01 26:16

I think that we've all experienced negativity in the workplace or even just in our lives, you know, because you can't really, for me, I don't really see the workplace as separate to life. Although when you have to earn your money by going through the office doors and spending time in this enclosed space with other people around you, we've all known the feeling of coming away from someone who just leaves you drained. And and I'm I think that understanding I I think that I think most New Zealand companies are pretty good at understanding that when we understand ourselves more, so if you invest into someone like me coming along and talking to your to your people, your team, when we understand ourselves more, we can then start to understand others more and where are they coming from? Because in times of stress, the work I do, I'm I'm entering people's homes with my funeral work in the most stressful, vulnerable, emotionally inflamed time of their life. And so my what I've had to learn is how to navigate, provide space for people to be how they're going to be in this moment, but also implement firm boundaries around what is acceptable behaviour and what is not. And within the workspace, we do, I think, because we we get comfortable coming into this office every day, and you know, sometimes it becomes a little like what is it, you take things for granted and you take the people around you for granted. I think that sometimes we can develop habits inside of our workspace, our work environment that we would never exhibit outside of our work environment. And I think it's about keeping short accounts and and obviously leaders and managers providing example from the top, but we're only human too. Leaders and managers are only human too. And I think that so really the answer is they need to get me in and come talk to them.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

I love it, I love it, nailed it. Episode nailed it. I love it, but I agree with you. I think, and this is something, you know, I've really been questioning lately. I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what I'm questioning. Is I see a lot of articles at the moment about on LinkedIn especially about leadership and how leaders need to be this and leaders need to be that and da-da-da-da-da, and how they should be really looking after their teams and how they should be doing this and that and the other. But I always question back and go, has anyone even thought about the leaders as humans as well? Like, has anyone who is who is supporting the leaders? If leaders are the ones that's supposed to be holding the whole company, who is actually holding the person holding it all? And I really want to see more around that. I really want to see more articles popping up about how we can support the leaders better. How can we provide them with the right tools and ways of coping with things? Because whether you want it or not, if you have stuff working for you, you do take their stress because at the end of the day, you're the one responsible for their paycheck. And if the company is not doing well, you know, it's not about just your pocket, it's about everyone's pockets involved and their families.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

So yeah. I yeah, I I hear what you're saying. Um, I have a we keynote that I call Who Cares for the Carers. And that that was kind of written initially with the the thought in mind of taking of people who provide care and elderly care or or health care. But actually, leaders and leadership, I think maybe if we because I I because I've never worked in a corporate environment myself, so I've never had to put on a little suit and go into an office every day. I've always kind of been a free spirit and kind of worked self-employed. So, so when I think about um leadership, so I don't really subscribe to the anagrams. I'm always like, what does that mean? See, I have to truly have to, I haven't been programmed that way. So when I think about leaders, I just think about actually the caretakers. You know, I would like to change that word leadership to the carers, you know, you're the people who are who are caring for the business, the finances, but also the staff, the the teammates around you. And that's a lot to expect of one person. You know, you say leadership and you ex you it immediately brings to mind, you know, power suits and and people, you know, at the end of a boardroom table. But if you say carer, it's a much more human word, I think, and and it apportions grace to the person that's providing the care as well. So I think that a shift in I believe in the power of the spoken word, Stephanie, so uh to affect change, positive and negative change. And a lot of the point of my keynote conversations is actually to shift perspective. So often we can just come in and think this way because it's always been that way. But if we can shift our perspective like that, I'll I'll give you that one. Start to think of your leader or yourself as a carer rather than a leader. You know, you've got to take the utmost care of the of the company's collateral, of the company's staff, of the company's buildings and maybe vehicles or all of those things that are of high financial value, as well as looking after all those lives that are are under the umbrella of your business. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

I really, really, really want to see this shift more and more because I find like sometimes, you know, I talk to people and I talk to people in all sorts of walks of life, and it and it really blows my mind when the guy, you know, I don't care about that because you know the boss will pay for that or the boss will pay for this. But it's like, but have you thought about the boss? Like, because obviously I have a business and I have staff. And I'm like, I don't think my staff know sometimes the the challenges that I have, the emotional tool that I have, and the financial tool that I'm carrying through to carry all those people. And lucky for my for me, I think my team is awesome, and I think they understand. But yeah, when I talk to other people sometimes, I really want humanity to lift its game again. I feel like we've become complacent with who we are sometimes. And you know, the brain always seeks the lazier ways of functioning. And being positive takes effort, being negative really doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

Yeah, you're but it but it does, it takes a toll. Yeah. Just coming back to imagining that that friend in your office space, I say friend rather than colleague, but you know, that that person that you share that office space with and saying, oh, the boss will pay for that, the boss will take care of it. Immediately, if I was to hear that, that I would be thinking, okay, so where's the where's the buy-in to the success of the business from that particular person? And what's going on for that person in their life where they feel uh not only in their life, but in their relationship with the company that they work for. And how can we dig down and look into that a little bit more? Because those attitudes, as you say, it's it's just it's dismissive of someone's got to pay for that somewhere up the line, you know. So you said you know, the boss is a human too, or the or the leader, or your carer, you know, is a leader too. And so I think sometimes just as perhaps leaders can be a little dismissive and maybe demanding perhaps of the staff or the people who work alongside them or for them, so can if resentment comes in or and resentment is really sneaks in when boundaries are being blurred or haven't been firmly established, because you know you can you can give so much if you are working within your clear boundaries. But if you're a worker who feels like you're being taken advantage of or not not being paid, you know, what you think you're worth, whether you are or not, but if you've if you have that attitude, you feel like your boundaries are being crossed. And so you immediately assume the boss, he's got it all or she's got it all, they can they can sort it. So there's a real lot of work that needs to take place, I think, within corporates or or or workplaces, just spaces where we all co-habit when we're working around that establishing boundaries that affirm not only for the the leaders, but also for the people that are are are working alongside them.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

I agree. And, you know, sadly I saw a lot of that happen in 2020 when we had the COVID and then we had the government programs and the benefits, you know, giving out to small businesses and this and this and the other. And I remember so many people were just doing such crazy things, like setting up, you know, hawk businesses to claim on this benefits because, oh well, you know, it's the government money. It's like, but do you realize this money will come from somewhere eventually through our taxes, through our children's taxes, you know, and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 35:14

So um so it's incredible. That's a whole nother conversation, isn't it? Because what is legal and what is moral are two completely different things. So what you what is legal is written in law, and some people have have the lawyers and the wherewithal to know how to push those legal limits right to the end. But whether that's moral is you know, something can be legal, but not moral. So what you're saying is they they set up companies. Obviously, I'm not sure whether they were legally allowed to do that, but there was obviously some sort of loophole that allowed them to do that. To you and me, that seems a moral, that seems like that would not be within my mind to do that because that's because one of the other things I talk about, Zeboniso, is standing in truth and integrity at all times. And so that's that is be behaving, I guess it comes for me with having lived in the public eye for so long with my radio work and my TV work. So you've kind of always got people looking at you. So you kind of by by nature, I'm a person programmed to want to be good and do good and make life better for people around me. So I think naturally I'm inclined to be a good person. But when I say I stand to choose and choose to stand in truth and integrity, that means that in in all aspects of my life. So when I say this to you, to your face, you know that I'm not going to turn around behind your back and say something else. Of course, no one's perfect and we don't always get that right. But when you determine to stand in truth and integrity, what that does is it piques your conscience. You know, the what was it, Pinocchio with Jiminy Cricket, the little cricket on his shoulder that was his conscience that told him right from wrong. And so once you determine to live a life that is in truth and integrity, you when you step outside of that or you start, you do something, you're c you'll feel a bit like, you know, it's piquing your conscience and it's developing your conscience. And the more you you lean into being truthful and again, of course it's subjective as well, you know, because what is right and truthful for me is going to be different from you, but depending on the culture we grew up in, not only the the religion perhaps that we grew up in or the family dynamics that we grew up in. So, you know, so so it's all subjective. And I think that, yeah, so I guess you're coming back to the kind of the COVID thing. And uh and then there's these other four words, four amazing magical words that don't get used any in this this day and age, like they used to, and it's when we know people are doing things wrong and we can get our knickers in a twist about you know, they're not they did that and it was wrong. Mind your own business. Sometimes I just have to say that to myself. Mind your own business, Mel. If they want to live like that, that's on them. Mind your own business. Is that affecting me? Well, I could get my knickers even in a more in a twist by saying that's taxpayers' money and they shouldn't be doing that. Mind your own business, pull back, breathe, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

I know, I know. I I struggle a lot with that because I I can in my own head, I have all those different dialogues, and then one thing I've learned, and this is something I like to share with people, is if you can master the three M's, your life will be so much better. And the three M's stand for your mind, your mouth, and your money. So if you can master the three M's, then you know you can improve your life so much more. If instead of concentrating on what your neighbor is doing, you know, you're concentrating on your actions of okay, am I a good neighbor? Okay, that neighbor isn't may not be good by because they're not doing X, Y, Z, but am I being actually a good neighbor? And maybe I should be doing something for my community. You know, am I good with my money? Am I good with my mind? You know, what am I actually nurturing my mind with? Is it just constant doom scrolling and seeing how people living their best lives? Or which they're not, by the way. Which they're not, and it's amazing. So many people I've interviewed lately, and everyone is saying the same thing that what you see on Instagram is all put through the filters, it's all you know, it's just a snippet of someone's life. You're not gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

I I look at my instant, I look at my Instagram page and I get jealous. I'm like, wow, I'm amazing. And I'm like, uh, actually.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

It's funny you should say this. I got I was playing with AI because I love playing with Claude and Chat GPT and things, and I got Claude to write me a little bio because I needed to send it off to Business Chamber, Capitol Business Chamber that I've sort of uh decided to partner up with. And it created this amazing bio for me. And I was like, oh wow, I'll marry me, I'll hire me. Like, wow, I sound really good on paper.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

You are really good. Well, you are really good, girl. And I think that sometimes that is definitely something that we struggle with. I think in New Zealand we've gone this humble kind of, you know, humble do-gooder or humble achiever. And I've been known to post on my Instagram and encourage the people who follow me to walk past the mirror and say, damn, you're looking good. You know, damn, you're on your way, you're doing great. You know, because when we say about, I always say that the ears hear what the mouth speaks. And and that that's not only our our physical dialogue out into the world, but also our inner dialogue and about standing in truth and integrity with your inner dialogue and saying to yourself, you know, next time you read that bio, you say, This is me, Zephanezo. I am, I've done great, well done, girl, you've done it. And and I mean, it's not about it's not about pumping yourself up. But I know for myself, when I have to, again, it's this neuro linguistic programming, if you're either building yourself up or building others up with your words, or you're tearing yourself down. And there's something very powerful that happens when we speak to ourselves out loud in the third person. So rather than just say, you're doing great, you're doing great, when I say, Mellie, you got this, you're doing great. Mellie, good girl, you got you're doing it. This is the dialogue that I need to call on and refer to quite frequently in my work when I'm about to go off and officiate a funeral that is a tragic or or heartbreaking, and I know I've got to walk through those thousand people or 500 people or however many, and I've got to get up the front and I've got to stand at that left turn, and I've got to turn around, I've got to face these people in their grief. And so I'm looking at a sea of heartbreak. And so to get me from this end of the aisle up to the front to turn around and talk to these people and and hold space for them, I have to say to myself, Mellie, you're brave, you're strong. This is what you've been doing for 20 years. You've got this. You you will have the words they need to hear. You know, I I also, so it's about, I guess it's about self-affirmation and um that beautiful linguistic, neuro-linguistic

Self-Talk Connection And Grace In Grief

SPEAKER_01 42:43

programming. But I also call on people often say, Oh, are you religious to do that sort of work? Are you religious? And I would say, I I think that I often will hear myself say sort of prayerfully, please give me the words these people need just now. Just before I walk, you know, I drive into the home of of someone and they they've just lost their their daughter in a car accident, and I pull up outside their house, and I I I have not got what it needs. I'm I have to just kind of surrender and say, please give me the words, you know. So that's a prayer I offer up prayers, you know. Um I don't go to church, but I I absolutely offer up prayers and recognize that I can't do this all on my own. And and so yeah, it's it's a inner dialogue and it's a calling on life and the universe and God and whatever you perceive him to be or her to be, and an acknowledgement that we are strong and powerful, but we can't do it all. No.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

And I think that's that's the key. And I think this is what the society needs these days is to really lean back into we were not meant to be alone wolves. We were always creatures of community. We were born into a family, and then we had all this community looking after us, growing together, hunting and gathering. And developing the skills. And somehow I see the epidemic on loneliness and depression is people that are stuck in their own rooms, that just stay at home, they don't go out, they don't socialize. And I think this is what's lacking is really that bringing back that memory that we were not meant to be alone.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Yeah, I love that. That's a beautiful observation. And I think you've definitely touched on something, the epidemic of loneliness. I like the way that you worded that, because it does bring to mind the many thousands of people who, by choice or by situation, living alone or choosing to be alone in their own space. And then they're filling that gap or that need for connection with online relationships, or which I I say connection is connection. And if it's if it's true connection, then online is great. Like look at us here. We're having this conversation via the computer, which we would never have been able to do, you know, a few years ago. And so, but the danger comes when people are um let's just take this to a whole nother level, but you know, fulfilling needs through pornography or or or things that are not good for their soul. And it's it's akin to eating lollies for dinner, you know, might feel good at the time, but it leaves you feeling sick. And if you do that on a frequent basis, you are going to get ill. And that that epidemic of loneliness, as you so beautifully described it, is it's very real. And this is, I guess, this kind of weaves our conversation back to where it started that I'm all about creating more positive connections because we are all wired for connection. And and yeah, the difficulty comes, I think, that when you are feeling isolated and alone, we as humans tend to make that about ourselves. Oh, I'm alone and isolated because I don't deserve love, or I'm not a good person, or or or the world sucks and I'm gonna shut them out, you know, because it's bad out there. You know, what are you telling yourself? And sometimes um where I I I come back to my choice again. We're kind of looping right back to the 11-year-old girl who said, I want to make life better for everyone. Um you know, like so offer a smile, you know, offer a word of hello. I see you. A smile costs nothing, and it says, I see you. So when you're walking down the street, you know, just a moment of connection, it doesn't have to cost you anything. A moment of connection can save a life. I'm I know that sounds dramatic, but I know this to be true. A moment of connection. That's not to say that you're responsible for how everyone is living or the choices they make, but you're responsible for what you emit into the world, you know. And if I can, if I can say to you, hey, how are you going? Or or see, I've I've practiced and I'm very good at this to the point of people looking at me like I'm a crazy woman. Oh my gosh, you look amazing. That colour's amazing on you. Or, you know, just exclaiming the seeing the beauty, the seeking the beauty, and the sharing the beauty, you know. So I'll see beauty, I'll seek it, and I'll exclaim it, I'll share it. So if we can just sprinkle sunshine in little ways like that, it can, it can't cure the world of loneliness. Of course it can't, but it can for a moment provide a seed of connection that can take root somewhere in someone's heart, you know, and and and that would be my word of encouragement to anyone because it we can even live in a marriage and feel lonely, or we can live in a in a bustling community and feel lonely. So loneliness is an internalized, you know, it's it's not necessarily what's going on physically around us. That's what we, you know, it's an internal thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

We go deep. You're giving me good. We go deep on this. You're giving me good I love it, I love it. I I swear to you, like you're my soul sister in some way. I'll take it because I'll tell you a funny story. When I was a kid, when I was a young, young child, I think I was about maybe nine or eight, I can't remember. And I remember talking to my one of my mom's friends or relative, and uh and we were talking about superpowers. You know, as a kid, you talk about superpowers and what your superpowers could be. And I remember them turning around and going to your smile. If you smile, no one will ever say no to you. If you ask for things with a smile and say hello and smile, you know, you can actually get quite far in life. And when you were saying that, I had this memory come back to me, going, Oh my god, someone was really clever to teach me that. Because that's exactly what they said. They said, smile does not cost you anything, but it could mean the world to someone, yeah, you know. So yeah, for me, I was like, oh my God, am I hearing this right from Melanie?

SPEAKER_01 49:18

You know, yeah, no, you're you're 100% right. And I think, but the important thing to acknowledge in that is as we kind of come to this point, and that's about taking responsibility and accountability for what we emit, for the light that we shine, what we choose to radiate, the positivity that we choose to, I think it also comes back to, I'm not sure if I spoke earlier about exhibiting fierce grace to others because we don't know what they're going through. And so if you if you encounter someone who's not giving you good vibes, or someone who's tired and grumpy, you know, we're not gonna maybe they maybe we smile at them and they don't receive that. That's not on us, and nor is it for us to hammer them with a smile or hammer them with positivity. No, Grace would say, I see you, I smile at you, I acknowledge you, and whatever it is that you are going through, I know that's not me, but I I'm I'm wishing good for you. You that's what Grace would say, because we, you know, uh, I think people can perceive this conversation conversation around positivity as being like, yeah, you just you know, just go through life saccharine sweet. And well, I would say to that, no, no, yeah, life has not been easy for me or our family, and and that's all subjective too. It's not a pity party, and it's not about who's had the biggest victimhood, but be aware that everyone, let me give you an example of that.

A Smile That Sees People

SPEAKER_01 50:55

I was at a supermarket and I was heading to the checkout, and the lady on the checkout she looked tired, and to be honest, she looked grumpy. She wasn't giving the people much, she wasn't omitting much to the people who were in front of me. And then I came up to her and I said, Oh, I like your earrings, you know, and she smiled, she looked up at me and she said to me, You're Melanie Kerr. And I said, Yeah. She said, I've just been sitting with my friend watching the funeral service that you performed for her boy. So, so her friend's son had taken his own life just a few weeks before. And they she had been sitting watching the the funeral that I had officiated with her friend, and she said, Oh, we we love you. We we think you're amazing. She said, I'm my son's name is this, and I said, Oh, your beautiful son, he was at the service. How is he? And she said, No, Melanie, he took his life two weeks ago. So this lady that I could have just gone through the checkout and thought, what a grumpy woman. Oh god, she needs to change her attitude. That is what she was carrying. I was blessed with the insight because she recognized me and knew me, and there was a beautiful, positive connection for us both in that moment. Had I had I not known that, I would have just written her off as a, oh, what a grump. They need to do something about her. Do you know what I'm saying? It's not to say we tolerate bad behavior, but we have no idea what is going on in people's lives. And we so often think, no, she just didn't like me. It's not about you. You're not that important. I mean, you're important, but you're not that important. Trust me, every one of us on this planet has got our own stuff in our heads, you know, we're just going through our life trying to do the best we can. And so that's uh I'm sorry that that's quite a stark example, but that is that's life, and that is what people are carrying, and we don't even know, you know?

SPEAKER_00 52:59

No, no, Melanie. I think that was a very beautiful reminder for those that are listening that you and I are not harping on here about how to be positive and how to, you know, just go out there and smile and everything will be okay. It's no, it's it's about recognizing the human beings in front of us, recognizing ourselves and what are we in charge of and what and what good can we bring to this world to uplift

Hold On You’re Doing Great

SPEAKER_00 53:28

others? So, as a parting note, what would be I know you've given so many amazing tools over the whole podcast, but if you were to go back 20 years ago to a young Melanie, what would you suggest for her to do or a life lesson that you could recommend?

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Just hang on, you're doing great. That's it. That's it. We've got no control, just hold on. You're doing great. That's what I would say, and that's what would be my message to all your listeners as well. You know, hold on, you're doing great, you matter, you are so important, and just just hold on because this thing called life, it's it's it's good and then it's bad, and then it's this way and and it's that way, you know. Just hold on, just just hang on. You're doing great. That would be it.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Thank you. Thank you, Melanie, so so much. You know, you just reminded me of one of my favorite books of Dr. Sue's that I used to read with the kids, where it says about you know how you will you'll have the ups and you will have the lows, and then sometimes you will end up in this place where it's a waiting place and you just don't know what's gonna happen while you're in that waiting place, but you just have to wait it out, and then you'll be up again, yeah, up and away. So thank you so so much for sharing your wisdom and sprinkling our podcast with your sunshine of positivity. And I would love to see you in person next time in Dunedin. We must catch up.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

That that's a given. That is a given. Um, it's been really it's been such a gift to me. And just to your listeners, thank you and thanks for indulging me. And I hope that you've received even just one little sprinkle of sunshine and and that that from that that some love can grow. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Thank you. We will embed all of your information. So for those that want to hire out your services to spread out even more sunshine, I hope they'll find a way to get in touch with you. So thank you so, so much, Melanie. Thank you. And I wish you an amazing day ahead. Thank you. Lots of love. Bye.