Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Well, hello everyone. Today I have Sandy Dotson with me today. She is an amazing head of business development for Wolfbrook Property Management. Hello, Sandy. And you're joining me from Auckland. I am. Thank you so much for having me. It's exciting. It is exciting. I was very excited when you said yes to me because it's not often you get the actual head of the whole department for the entire New Zealand to come and join and share your knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Well, I'm just delighted to be here and it's a pleasure to be working with you.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Thank you, Sandy. So tell me what does your job title mean and what do you do in

What A National BDM Does

SPEAKER_00 0:50

your normal life?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

So I don't have a normal life. Let's get that out of the open straight away. What's normal? Actually, normal's boring. So no one wants a normal life, right? So, head of business development, what does that mean? I am in charge of growth at Wolfbrook for property management. I have a team of BDMs around the country based in Auckland, Hawkes Bay, Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

And so I have the national role means I'm around the country, which I love. So I'm actually across all the markets across New Zealand. Outside of those areas, we also cover the Waikato, all of Bay of Plenty. We're also in Nelson. And we're also in Central Otago. We just don't have BDMs physically located in an office in those locations. So what do I do? I run a team of BDMs, high performance BDMs, and our job is to go out there and work with investors and talk to them about what's important with their investments and to ensure that they're getting the best possible property management.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

That's a hot topic, right? There's been a lot of changes, legislations, government talks, etc. We're in a really strange election year. Depends which party gets in. There's a lot of talks in that department as well. Now, tell me about what you're seeing right now from your point of view.

The NZ Investor Market Right Now

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, so it is it is an interesting time, right? And we chatted about this on our team call just this week about talking to people and they say, oh, I might just wait until after the election. And you know, I'm like, what? Why? It's like it's like, what are you waiting for? It's it's like nothing happens overnight or anything like that. And and I think that's a really good conversation to have, right? Because when is the best time to buy an investment property? It's it's always now. It's, you know, I think everyone will agree. If you thought about this six months ago, you know you should have bought it six months ago, right? So what we are seeing in the industry is there are still people out there buying investment properties. There, it's it it is a buyer's market in real estate right now. So there are a lot of people out there. Yes, yes, the market is definitely geared to first-time buyers, but this is a market where a lot of invest investors are buying additional properties to add to their portfolio. And, you know, and when is the best time to buy? You must know this with you know what you do with guiding people financially. It is always going to be now. So we are seeing a lot of people still buying and a lot of people coming on as seasoned investors and also first-time investors. What we're seeing those accidental landlords coming on with people who are trying to sell their owner-occupied home because they're they're moving. They're either moving to another location within New Zealand, possibly moving overseas. And they can't sell their owner-occupied home. So they have decided to hold it for the next you know year to two years and and see what the market's going to do. So that's really a an overview of what we're seeing in the market right now.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

That was a really good summary, Cindy. I feel like I need to have you here every week.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

That was awesome. Can you tell can you tell I get paid to talk for a living? I love it.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

I love it. But that's true, right? Like a lot of my buyers at the moment, if they can't sell their own home, I say to them, and if they can afford to buy the next one, I usually say, just hold on to the one you have, rent it out, just write out this wave because you don't want to sell it when the market is low. Write it out and then sell when when the prices go back up again in a couple of years' time. And I guess they're the ones that are accidental landlords. But at the same time, I do have a few landlords that are scared. They're scared that the capital gains tax will come into play, that you know, the interest deductibility will be reversed if the other government gets in and things like that. So I feel like there's always two sides to the camp where one camp is really scared and tries to get rid of stock, and then the other camp going, oh my God, what a great opportunity. I'm gonna take it.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah, that's right. Exactly right. And you know, when you've got, say you've got elderly people that have had a portfolio for a very long time, you know, they're the ones that generally sell around this time because they've just had enough, right? They're they're they're ready to sell. But I just think uh, you know, nothing happens overnight with an election. So, you know, if something does happen and there are big announcements, it's not gonna happen overnight. You're going to have plenty of time to make changes. So it's just like that should not be a governing reason for you to not move forward if everything else aligns. I I wouldn't be worried about that per se. And I've been through quite a few elections in this industry, and honestly, it's not a game changer.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yeah, no, that's really reassuring to hear. In Wellington at the moment, there's a lot of hot topics around the water rates. Let's address the elephant in the room here, because I am in Carpeti. I mean, we've always had the water rate in Carpeti, but the Wellington region seems to just get it, and there's a lot of people in panic. What advice do you have for the landlords at the moment that are receiving those bills?

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Yeah, so can you just tell me what's actually happening with the water rates in Wellington? Because I'm like you, I'm based, oh well, I'm in Auckland, and we've always had we've always had water rates, right? So I can talk to what happens in this location, but I have heard a little bit about what's happening with water rates that they are going to be charged, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, so apparently a lot of people just received randomly rates to say, here's your new water bill, and there's there are no water meters in Wellington, and they're just based on your property value. It doesn't even know whether you know you've got five

Election Anxiety And Buying Decisions

SPEAKER_00 7:00

people living there or one person living there. But if you're right next to each other, like I was thinking of my household, right? I've got seven people living here versus my neighbor Dave, he's only got one person, just him. And imagine if both of us get the same water bill.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Like that doesn't make sense at all. And it doesn't make sense at all. No, it doesn't make sense at all. So what's the plan with Wellington? Is everyone going to get a water a water meter?

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Well, apparently eventually they will get everyone to do a water meter.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

So at the moment you just get X amount of dollars, everyone's being paid to charge water.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Wow, that's wild.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Even people that have beer land. I was talking to another person today, and they've got just land in Wellington that haven't even built a house yet, and they've got a bill for the water rates.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah. So we've paid water for a very long time, you know, in in Auckland. And so how it works with, you know, with an investment property is that the landlord is responsible for the fixed charges, and the tenants get get paid for the usage, and that's a really fair way of doing it. So it's going, I c I can't imagine how they're going to roll this out in Wellington, but they're they're going to have to obviously get these water meters in and start doing it properly.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Yeah, otherwise there's going to be a lot of uncertainty on both parties. Absolutely. Tell me a little bit about the healthy home regulations and stuff. What have you seen with your landlords and how are they coping with that? That's been going on for a while now with the healthy homes.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

It really has, right? And and can I tell you, it it, you know, I think 2016 was when it was compulsory for insulation. Everyone had to have their insulation and and smoke alarms, right? And then from July of last year, healthy homes had to be fully compliant. And I and you know, it is it is very fair to expect a tenant to live in a healthy home. And I think the requirements are fair. I don't think they are ridiculous. Where I have only seen it fall over is in brand new builds where they may have open plan living, but they've got double glazing and it's well insulated and things like that. So there have been a few areas where it it hasn't quite worked out. But I believe, generally speaking, landlords that have property managers are all very open to having their home healthy home served. They want to provide a healthy home for their land their tenants, and they want their tenants to love living in that home so that they stay. You know, that's a the happy tenant makes a happy landlord. And so it's win-win all around. I think where I see it, where it where it's not good, is dare I say it, self-managing landlords. If you're a self-managing landlord and you think you can get away with it, it's when the likes of they they something happens and we take over. We we can't take over properties that aren't healthy home compliant. We have to get them healthy home compliant. And so I think it's a fair, I think it's fair legislation, and I think it's been good for New Zealand. You've got to look at some of the stock around New Zealand, and I and I talk about Auckland, I can talk about Wellington, all over right. Dunedin, some of that stock, it really needed a little bit of an upgrade to be a little bit warmer and a little bit more comfortable for people to live in. So the best thing I've ever heard from one of my favorite investors is he said, I would never allow any of my tenants to live in a home that I wasn't prepared to live in with my wife and children. And I loved that. That should be a great philosophy as of in an investor landlord. We should all feel that way.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Yeah, no, I absolutely love that because at the end of the day, it's if you become a property investor, I believe it's just like any other business, right? You've got to take care, you've got to take responsibility for your actions. Like if you were a food manufacturer, you're not gonna, I don't know, create a hummus that you're not gonna eat yourself. Like that's exactly right. You've got to create a hummus that you're gonna eat and everyone else will eat. I guess same for the property industry. It is a business. We're running a business, yes, but at the same time, it's making sure it's compliant and making sure that people are safe and helping.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

I think you were being a bit too generous by saying some of those houses needed a little bit of work. I think they needed way more than a little bit of work.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Oh, look, I won't, I'll never forget there was one we took over a property in New Plymouth actually, and the roof was leaking, there were boards missing off the side of the house, there was cardboard on windows, there was a swimming pool under the house from water that was coming from from somewhere, and it was under management, and it was like, this is not healthy home compliant. How can you black mold coming up the walls? And it's like, how can you have people living? You know, why would you put people living in there? It's just it's it's not good, right? It's like, how can people sleep at night when they provide accommodation like that for someone paying? It's just not right. So it it need there needed to be a standard, and I'm pleased.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah. And I hear you were in Dunedin just a few days ago.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Oh, yesterday I went I went in and out in a day. It was absolutely glorious. Thank goodness I wasn't there two days ago, because that's when everyone was skiing or snowboarding down the streets. It was hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Yeah, it looked like Dunedin turned into a bit of a Narnia.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yeah, it was, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

And I mean, historically, Dunedin was also one of those towns that was often highly spoken that needs work done because a lot of those houses are being rented out by students. Yes. Very, very poor conditions.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Absolutely right. And so they needed they needed to to really up the ante on those. We've just taken over a 27 bedroom boarding house, and every the whole property is healthy home compliant. What a breath of fresh air. It was like the first question is is this healthy home compliant? Yes. So I think, you know, Dunedin really needed an upgrade. Those poor students down there, you know, that not only are they living on noodles, but they're absolutely frozen when they're trying to sleep at night. So it's really good to know that that accommodation has been improved so that they are able to live in a comfortable home. They're either stinking hot in summer or freezing cold in winter, right? So and and and it's old stock, and old stock is generally what's being rented, you know, it's being held. So it is great. It is great all around. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Oh, I love that. Sandy, tell me what gives you passion for this role. You deal with people, and you deal, like, let's face it, I'm gonna say it. I've I've been very controversial lately on my podcast.

Wellington Water Rates Confusion

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Property management is not sexy, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Oh, it's hard. Oh, who wants to do it? I don't understand anyone who wants to do it.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

It's hard work. You're dealing with people, you're dealing with various kinds of people. People have issues in terms of the house, something can happen to the house, and you get calls in the middle of the night and stuff like that. What brought you to this industry and what is making you stay?

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Well, it was actually champagne that got me here, and it's a funny story, actually. So I was actually, we had a party in the backyard, and I'd been self-employed for 11 years, and it was my daughter was like, we've been through COVID, and my daughter was like, Mum, you're just wasted at home. You need to get back out there in the workforce. And and you know, once you've been self-employed, you're like, I don't know if I'm employable. Anyway, long story short, a couple of glasses of champagne, and I was telling this story. I went for an interview. I won't name the company and the person who I saw. It was the worst interview of my life. And I'm like, Oh, I'm not going back to work, I'm gonna have to work for people like you. It was just appalling. And we're we're standing there drinking away, celebrating love in our backyard. We'd renewed our wedding at both my husband and I, and with all of our friends and family around. And one of my friends turned around and said, Sandy, if you're going back to work, you're gonna go and work for my son. Anyway, uh, long story short, I went for an interview and and I joined this industry and I just fell in love with it. And it's interesting because I knew nothing about property management, but I fell in love with it very quickly because it's all about people. And it's funny to say that because you think it's about property, but it's actually all about people. It's about the people that work within your business, the property managers, the admin staff. It's about the investors, it's about the tenants, it's about people with property attached to it. And so it's a relationship industry, and I just love people. I also love property. So win-win, right? Why do I stay? Because I am passionate about making sure that this industry elevates its standards to be better than it's ever been before. So, as you know, property management isn't a regulated industry, so you actually don't have to be qualified to come in and be a property manager. So there is a lot of shonky donkeys out there managing property and managing it badly and not compliant, no healthy homes compliant, no audited trust account. And so, what I'm passionate about is making sure people understand the difference between brilliant property management and the shonky donkeys. And so that's what keeps me here. I want to elevate this industry again and again and again. So when I got the opportunity and I was, you know, shoulder tapped and asked to come and join Wolf Rock property management. What excited me the most about joining here was the ability to affect change and really level up and really increase the level of service, performance, and the standards. The standards that we don't just hold ourselves to, but that we will hold our investors to. So that our investment stock is a great quality and that our our tenants love living in our homes and our investors are getting the best return on their investment because that's our job, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

I love it. I'm gonna send this to your manager, this recording, so that can form part of your KPI review because you just nailed it. Absolutely nailed it.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Oh, thanks, love. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Yeah, but you're right, like, and that was my uh one of the questions I had for you is how do you feel about this industry given it's not really regulated? Like, you know, for to become a mortgage advisor, we have to study, and then we have to that we can do this, this, this, and the other. Versus anyone can wake up and go, I'm gonna be a property manager and go and manage properties without any experience whatsoever. And there are a lot of shonky property managers, and I was a victim of one, you know, where I trusted the person to be doing the job they were doing, and unfortunately, they weren't. And that really affected me over the last few years where I had to, you know, kick out the tenants that weren't the right fit, I had to renovate the properties and things like that, and then wait a period of time to get new tenants in. So it cost me thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars because we had a very chonky shady property manager. Yes, um, so I absolutely feel that pain, and I and I stand by you as well to say that this this industry needs more regulation. We do need more quality property investors. We do need to make sure that what we put out there is looked after properly.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, and one of the things I'm most proud of here at Wolfbrook Property Management is we actually put our staff, our property managers, go through level four property management qualification, and that's done through Skills Ignite, and it's really it's a powerful qualification because they're

Healthy Homes And Minimum Standards

SPEAKER_01 19:30

actually they then get a certification at the end of it to say that they've passed their level four for property management, and that will ensure the investor knows that our team are educated, they actually understand RTA legislation because our job is to protect the investors to make sure that their home is compliant, not just for healthy homes, but compliant in every way, that we are looking after the tenants the correct way. And so I think that's a really important part of what we do within this industry is education.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Do you think there should be a register for bad tenants or bad landlords?

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Yes. Why don't we have one? Why don't we have one?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I don't know. They just get away with it time and time again, don't they? So they they really prey on on vulnerable people, I think. You know, like slumlords, they they prey on vulnerable people. And vice versa, you know, you know, repeat offender bad tenants, they why can they be have their names suppressed and and hide away? So that's why again it's so important that you work with someone that can do the checks, that can that know how to drill down and and find out if it's if it's suppressed and things like that, they can really get to the bottom of whether this will be a good enough tenant to put forward.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

No, there are ways.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

There are ways to find out. I love it. I love it. But they should be like honestly, looking at the two tenants that I had to serve Nortis to leave, like I couldn't believe the way they destroyed the houses I had and the conditions they were living in. For me personally, it was mainly I was very sad for them and their children, the the conditions that the children were living in. I mean, both of those properties were freshly renovated, they had new carpets, new paint, new kitchen, new bathrooms. And when we went through the check after they left, someone that was with me, they asked me, Oh, well, when was the last time you renovated this house? Or has this house ever been renovated? They didn't realize the house was only renovated two years ago.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

It wasn't Yeah, and that's that's not good enough, right? And that comes down to the quality of the inspection. And I think, and I think we need to again, this is an area that I'm quite passionate about. And funnily enough, Samantha Ronald, the general manager, and I fluted in Eden yesterday and we talked about this. And it's like the quality of inspections needs to be raised, the bar needs to be raised, you know, like you need to be able to see. And and I think everyone gets sent this tiny little snapshot of a photo. That you can't see. And it's what it is, it's our job to when we go through to do an inspection to hold these tenants to the standard that is expected to maintain the home. A renovation should not last three years. It's that's not okay. That tells you that the tenants aren't being breached, they aren't being educated. It's the same thing. You have to educate people. Some people haven't been taught how to clean a house, how to clean a bathroom. And, you know, that is our job in this industry. It sounds ridiculous, but you actually, you know, I know people that take cleaning product round and show people this is how you clean a house. And and education, once you show them, it's really exciting once they embrace it. And and most people don't want to live like that, but if you show them how, they then embrace it and live well, right? So I think education is is so important in all aspects of this industry. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

I'm thinking if Zibuniso had another clone, she would probably start up courses, you know, uh how to clean houses and how to clean up. How to clean houses, yeah. But you're right, like I remember I had one tenant and I opened the oven and I was blown away. Like the oven was just in such a state. And I was like, have you ever cleaned this? And they're like, We have to clean that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Exactly right. So many people haven't been taught. It's a dying art cleaning.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Yeah. I I did self-manage as well some of the properties, and that's why I take my hat off to the property managers because I feel like it's a very looked-down job. And you know, some cases people underestimate how much property managers actually do.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Like, oh, it's ridiculous how much they do. I, you know, I have the glory job, and I and I I own that. Like I I am the champagne and and over here living my best life in the glory space of a BDM life. And the property managers are the absolute rock stars. They are the foundation of every property management business. They are the grinders, they're doing the hard yards. I take my hat off to them. What they what they see and do is just is, you know, so wild. And and I think it is, you have to be passionate about property and and this industry to be able to stay in it. And it's a tough gig, right? Burnout is very real for property managers. So it's so important that you're with a company that is going to look after you and support you in this role. And I think that's key as well, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Well, that was going to be my question. Do you look after your people and how do you look after them?

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Yeah, so it's it's all about how you structure the business. And I think what's exciting is that you, you know, there's so many ways that you can do it. And I I think it what works for one office may not work for another. So it depends on the location and how you want to do it. But the most important thing, and I think everyone that's in property management would would agree, is the volume of properties that you're managing, what admin support you're getting, what technology your company is using to support you. It's not one thing. So, you know, I've seen property managers that manage 200 properties and they do it, they do it with such ease and grace and no stress whatsoever. And I've seen others that are managing 80 and then just an absolute stress, stress ball, you know, going around the office like a headless chicken. So it all depends on how you are as a person, you know, the property managers need to be so organized and so structured and juggling a million things at once. Those are the type of people that do well in this industry, but the structure and and how much support you have is also important.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Do you see more women or men property managers?

SPEAKER_01 26:04

There's always a mixture. Now ask me who's better at it.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

I'm like, I think I know what you're gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

Who's better at it? Ah, woman, all day long, and I love it. All the men are gonna come for us in this, and it's so funny. Why do I say that most, not all, there are some phenomenal men, property managers, but why are why do women excel? Because they are so used to multitasking, they do 20 things at once and just get stuff done right. Yeah, so it's like it's just a joke. I'm joking joking, guys. I love it, I love it. It's woman all day long.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

But you're right, like I think also you know, you need a lot of empathy as well when you're dealing with people, and I think our superpower comes in as well. And it's not that men are not empathetic, they just build different, and we just have to recognize that that look, and that is okay, men and women are built different, and we should play to our skills.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

It's the 80-20 rule, right? And so 20% of men in our the property management side, 80% women, 20% men, and they are phenomenal. But I think if you look at that 80-20, that's why there's 80%

Why The Industry Needs Regulation

SPEAKER_01 27:20

women, because they are suited to it, and only 20% of the men are going to excel in this field. So, yeah, have I have I redeemed myself and the men haters aren't gonna come for us?

SPEAKER_00 27:33

Yeah, I think I think you redeemed yourself, but at the same time, like I think a lot of men are really good at those, you know, harder skills. If we're good at soft skills, they're usually good at those harder skills where you absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yeah, I know I know one of the things you said you were gonna talk to me about, and again, I'm quite passionate about this, is about what investors need to do with their properties right to ensure that they're keeping up with the market. Yeah, we have a little uh is that on your list or we bypass that? No, that's on my list. Go. Go. So one of the things that is really important, and and this is a market, right? It is it's a winter. We're in a really tough market. And one of the things I coach on when we're going live with the property, marketing is something I'm really passionate about. And it's so important if you're going to market your property as an investor. There's two things you need to get right, and that's presentation and price. So, you know, and I talk about this all the time when I'm actually talking to an investor, and I say to them, So if you had to score your house, uh, one being it needs a full renovation in 10, it's like, and we're talking about an older house, right? One being that you need a full renovation in 10, it's as brand new or it is a brand new house, where do you think it sits presentation-wise? Are we a five, a six, seven, eight? And they have to score themselves. And if they actually say, you know, and then the other question I ask is like, when did you last do a renovation? And they'll go, oh, oh, and it's like, uh, I go, how old is the house? I was bought in the 1960s. I said, has it had any upgrade? And they go, Oh, we might have painted the lounge. You know, it needs a renovation, right? And so I think what's really important for investors, and and and when you're talking to them and they're talking about becoming an investor, right, in your space, and it's like they have to understand they need to put money away every year, just like we do as homeowners, and you know you're gonna have to upgrade the curtains or do new carpet after 12 years or whatever, or after the kids have a 21st, like I had to one year after my daughter's 21st party, we had to redo the carpet. But it's like you have to put money aside all the time to keep up upgrading, right? And that doesn't change with an investment property. So I think presentation-wise, if you're going to market, you always need to look at what you could do cosmetically to get your house as close to a 10 out of 10 to achieve the best price to ensure that you're always getting your return on investment. But if you're only a five out of 10, are you going to drop your price to show that you're a five out of 10? You can't get 10 out of 10 price. And so I think that's really important. And why I I I'm really passionate and coach and vocal about presentation and price is because if you get those two things right, you'll get it rented quickly and well, and you don't have downtime with no money coming in. And that's the pain point for investors. Whenever it's it's vacant and there's no money coming in, you are paying a hundred percent every week on, week on week with no money coming in.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

I love that because I think a lot of people think that they can just slap on some paint and then get the premium for it.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Yeah, but no, they can't. Yeah, it's really competitive, right? And I like I watch the market and it's the same across the country. Someone said to me the other day, gosh, Wellington's a tough market to rent in. And I went, No, it's not. And they go, What do you mean? How can you say that? And I'm so adamant. And I'm like, No, it's not. If you've got the presentation and price right, it's absolutely an same market as anywhere else. Why it becomes a tough market is when owners are expecting it to be here and the quality of their house is here. You can't, the market's there. Presentation and price is always going to be there. If it's there, you won't rent it.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Yeah, gotta meet the market. And I mean, look, I know a lot of landlords have actually reduced some of the rent. I know some of them had to take that hit just for a short period of time, but they know that property property investment is a long game. It is, are always reminders to the clients because some of them just want to get rich fast and they think they can just buy property and then you know this rent will come in and they don't have to worry about it ever again. If you want a hands-off approach, then you know go buy shares or something. This is not financial advice, by the way. But um, but you know what I mean? Like if if you don't want to really look after property for me, property it's something I see, something I can touch, and I believe in it a little bit more than shares and investments because I feel if the property market crashes, at least I still have a house. I've got a piece of land. I can always bulldoze the house, I can always build something on it. Like for me, nobody makes more land.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

No, and and you know what I love about it too is like as an investor, you're providing a home for someone. And that was my next point as well. It is so beautiful to be able to provide a home for people that that need one, you know, that want one.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yeah, one of my uh properties in Palmy, this tenant of mine, she's been there now 11 years. Yeah, wow. And she moved in as a single mom, and she had another baby there while she was there as well, and she's still a single mom and stuff like that. And it's just beautiful, you know, to watch her be there for the last 11 years and be an awesome tenant, and and seeing her calling that home her home. That's right. But I think sometimes investors forget that, that it's maybe your investment, but it's actually someone's home.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Someone's home, right? And you and nothing better than when a tenant loves it like their own home.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Yeah, and you can see, like, you know, they look after it, they clean it, they look after the gardens and the trees, and yeah, you know, and eventually she wants to buy it off me, and I'm more than happy for her to buy it off me. Um I'm just waiting for her to be in that position. And but it's so so cool to see her raising her children there and seeing you know the photos popping up and things like that, where she's just and she's house proud.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

She, you know, yeah, that's so

Inspections, Education, And Accountability

SPEAKER_01 33:50

nice, right? That's a good story. That is a good story. Well, I've got a mixture, I've got some good stories in both. I do. Yeah, the good, yeah, the good and the bad, right? I think I think that's the industry though.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

It does. So I don't know if you can share any stories from your end at all without breaching any privacy act. But do you have any nice stories or horrible stories for our listeners today?

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Oh gosh, I've got some funny ones. I don't know if you're gonna get those. We might have to make it an R conversation. I've got lots, I have got lots of great stories, and I've got lots of horror stories as well. And and I think, you know, like I, you know, like you and I know each other, right? We we we've um worked together. And and like you talked about the fact that you had a property manager, so and but you just weren't getting the service. So in a in one of the situations, I was working with an overseas investor, and he had three properties under management with another company. Now we took them, we took them over, and he was like, I can't get any information from the company. You imagine being overseas, and you can't even get in your car and drive there and see your investment property. And you know, like we took over these three properties, and they were all interesting. I won't say bad, they were all interesting, but one of them, one of them had a tenant that just refused access to the property. So he had the property completely fenced off. He had a dog on the property that was an attack dog, and that was like unsafe. You there was no way you could even enter the property. He had no way, uh no, no email, no phone. So we had no way of actually getting access to this property. And when we we finally had to get, and it took a long time, but we finally got police escort, we finally got everyone else involved. When we finally got access to that property, there wasn't one non-broken window in the place, there wasn't one door that was in the place, the garage had been used as a uh a place to grow illicit uh plants, and uh the floorboards were ripped up, which indicated things had been stored under the floorboards as well. And you know, this owner for for years had been with another company and had no idea that this was going on at his place. So the good part about that it's good and bad, that so we went through all this, but the the funniest part was the neighbors were like, thank you, thank you, thank you for removing this absolute nightmare from our little cul-de-sac. And the owner was like, a hundred and how many thousand to get my house repaired, to get it back rented. But anyway, we we got it all done, we managed a renovation, we got a really great tenant in there, and it's happy days moving forward, and that's a classic example of good and bad management and holding your property managers to account, you know, and and and that that is a wild story, but it actually happened. And you know, the safety of our staff is so important, and putting putting people uh having to go to that home, there's just no way we would allow them to go into that home. Yeah, and that that particular tenant came in raging once we finally got them removed and said, Oh, I'll pay, I'll pay, I'll pay. Too little, too late. You know, those those bad apples, they just need to be out. He needs to be named, everyone needs to know who he was, all of that stuff. So yeah, but I love lots of amazing stories. You know, I I've worked with owners and and they just continued buying, buying by, and they're just so happy being in the space because they're so happy being looked after, and that just comes down to relationship.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Yeah, no, I love that. And you know, this is where the register comes in, right? Like this is where those sort of tenants should be named. I mean, I had a beautiful name. I had a beautiful story with your uh property manager that took over for one of my properties, and the tenant were initially. I used to manage him myself for ages ago. We put him in there with his partner, but then that relationship broke down, and then he's been living by himself ever since. And then when the other property managers got involved, he sort of became a bit disconnected and he wasn't really paying his rent on time, he wasn't really looking after the property, and the previous property managers really struggled to be in touch with him. But what your property manager did, and I thought that was hilarious, absolutely hilarious. She knew him from the local Fano connections, and they go to the same Mariah or something. So she literally pulled him up in Mariah and she was like, if you don't clean up your act, you know, I know where your mom lives, I know where your aunt is. And and she

Presentation And Price To Rent Fast

SPEAKER_00 38:50

put that fear of connection back into him. And you know, he pays his rent now, he's catching up on all the rent that he's missed, he's patching up the house and things like that. Because he doesn't want to leave the property, he loves that house, he's been there for you know 10 years. So for him, that's home as well.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

It's funny, isn't it? That I uh don't make me call the aunties in, huh?

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Yeah, literally, literally, that's what she said to him to get to get him pull his act together. And and I thought that was beautiful because as as much as we want to think of property managers as those people that come with the little notebooks and take notes and take pictures, they're actually human too, and they live in our communities and they do care. They do, yeah. That was cool. I thought that was a really cool uh outcome for all parties involved. That you know, I suddenly got a tenant that's paying money again and actually loves being where he is, and then the tenant actually realized that he can pull his head, and you know, she went to winds with him as well to to sort out his benefits and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

So I thought going the extra mile, right? Helping people like that's our job, and that's what we do. It's so important.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Yeah, now tell me about the Wolfbrook because originally the Wolfbrook was a company that was building houses, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 40:07

Yes, so we still do. So Wolfbrook, you know, you've got Steve Brooks and James Cooney and and young entrepreneurial guys, developers. So they were absolutely pivotal in the rebuild of Christchurch, right? They own their own stock of investment properties and they they basically just weren't happy with the industry and weren't happy with the standard of service they were getting for managing their own their own stock of investments. And so, you know, the entrepreneurs they're just like, oh fuck it, let's just start our own uh oh, you know, let's just start our can we so you know, entrepreneurial guys, and they were just like, let's open our own property management company. And so they started with just managing their own. And then with their with developing, so they were developing houses and and because they had their own property management business, they were able to say, buy a development from us, a property from our development, and we will give you a rental guarantee and we will manage it for you. So they were absolutely able to guarantee that the fact that they could then get the rent when you buy off the plans, they were able to guarantee you'd get X amount of dollars. And if the market drops, they will top it up. So it was a fabulous win-win for the development to the property management. So, so really superb synergy, right? Which is really exciting. And it's not just that, they own so many companies, but under the Wolfbrook umbrella, but it's a great synergy for the development side and property management. And so, you know, Wolfbrook in before December 24, you know, they probably had about 650 to 700 properties on there under management, and they were very heavily Canterbury-based.

Wolfbrook’s Growth Story And Wrap

SPEAKER_01 41:55

And now we sit just under 5,000 across New Zealand from Auckland down to uh Dunedin. So yeah, it's exciting to be part of some innovative entrepreneurial company. So it's a wild ride, and you've just got to be you're either you're either on the bus or you're off the bus. And it's such an exciting place to be.

SPEAKER_00 42:19

I love it, and I love that your champagne story leads you to this moment where you can see the company just grow so much exponentially over the last what 18 months now. And and I love those Kiwi stories, like just Kiwi people, you know, just ordinary people doing extraordinary things.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

I absolutely Steve Brooks knows if he wants me to do something, he he doesn't dangle a carrot, he dangles the magnum of champagne. That normally gets me, that normally gets me going.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

I love that too. Hey, look, I would love to come to your head office one day and um you and I can, you know, absolutely have some nice bubbles together.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Sounds fantastic. You anytime you just let me know, we'll hook it up.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Sounds good. Sandy, thank you so so much for coming in today. I would love to have you back at some point and we can look at some statistics and stuff because I think it's really important to show people what's really going on out there and remove all that noise because I feel like the more people listen to various people, they get confused and then they get analysis paralysis.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

And numbers don't lie.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

They don't lie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Sandy. Really appreciate the talk with you today. And let's go and enjoy our bubbles. It's getting later today. My pleasure. See ya.