Builder's Reports And What Gets Checked

SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you were wondering whether you need a builder's report or not when you're doing purchase of a home, whether it's for you or for investment property, this is the episode for you. So listen up. I've got Evan Cardwell from Czech Home Carpete Building Inspections. Hello, Evan.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Hi, how's it going?

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Good, thank you. Thank you so much for coming in this morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

We met briefly last week and we're talking about the importance of building reports. Yes. So this is up your valley.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Yep. What do you do? So my job is to go in and assess a house. So I do pre-purchase, pre-sale, maintenance reports, healthy homes, pretty much any check that you need on the house, I can complete. So yeah, we go in, assess the house, do interior, exterior, subfloor, roof space, site, moisture testing, and yeah, we kind of just do a full assessment of the house.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Do you climb under the floors and into the roof space?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Yep. Yep. If if I can get in, then I will. And if I can't get on the roof, then we use drones.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah, I guess technology makes your life a little bit easier now compared to back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Absolutely. It is definitely difficult, especially with like high-pitched roofs. Yeah. Where we can only access it from uh ladders from around the perimeter perimeter. But when it comes to drones, then we can get a full a full kind of scope of the actual roof. We can blow up the photos when we write up the reports on our computers and get a really good sense of you know how it's functioning and if there are any hidden risk areas that you just can't see from the side.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yeah, because like a lot of our buyers are first-time buyers, they have no idea what they're doing, and they normally would be buying an older property because not many of them can afford a new build straight away. So what we're finding is a lot of fielders' reports come back with roof damage, whether it's roof that needs repair or if it's licking already, whatever. Is that what what are you finding

Roof Damage And Hidden Gutter Traps

SPEAKER_01 2:08

in terms of common issues?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

It depends on obviously the style of the roof. When when it comes to uh houses up the uh company coast, there's a lot of dichromastic roof tiles, like metal roof tiles, uh concrete tiles as well. But the the main the main issues are dented cracked tiles, surface rust, rust deterioration, and especially actually in the company coast, there's a definite larger kind of stock of hidden gutter systems, like class class fascia hidden gutter systems. So that's when the gutter is on the inside of the eaves rather than on the exterior.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Why would someone do that?

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Terrible design from the 90s, early 2000s.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Because I'm like, that doesn't even make sense in my head. Why would you hide a gutter that you need to clean and exactly?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, so that and that is one of the specific reasons why you should be getting builders' reports because there are so many hidden factors when it comes to building designs and just trying to gauge if that's functioning. Even if it's a terrible design, it could still be working. So just making sure that the buyers or sellers know if it's in place, what the condition is, what kind of maintenance and repairs may be required. We don't really do any cost kind of stuff. You'd have to get an actual separate quote for that. Yeah. That would absolutely be a conflict of interest.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

But yeah, it it's it's quite interesting just going in and seeing all these different risk areas on a house. You probably wouldn't realize with a naked eye. Yeah. I mean, there's there's typically around about I think it's about 40 to 45 different risk areas on any on any dwelling.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Okay, so I've got a curly one for you. Who orders the report? The vendors or the purchases?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

It depends on, I guess, how the house is being sold. So the majority at the

Who Orders Reports And Why

SPEAKER_00 4:30

moment seem to be purchases. When it comes to pre-sales, we're really only seeing pre-sale reports being ordered if they know that there's kind of maintenance needing done on the house and they want to do that maintenance or repairs prior to going to the market, or if they're going to be going to auction. So they're trying to present all the information as much as possible to the potential buyers. So then they're not holding up any purchases by doing due diligence and stuff like that when it comes to auction.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

So would you still recommend to the buyers to do their own report?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah. Yeah. So when it comes to our reports, what we do, the only difference between a pre-purchase and a pre-sale for us is literally the name of the report. There's there's no difference in the actual contents of and the content of the uh building inspection. So it's very unbiased. We go in, it's as factual as possible, assess the house. If there's no issues, great. If there are issues, we break down what the issues are, where they are, hopefully how to fix it, with if it's within our scope. And then yeah, hopefully that kind of gets it across the board.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Because yeah, often again, like clients come to me and go, Oh, there's already builder's report done. Do I need to get my own? And look, normally the banks don't require clients to produce a builder's report unless they've specified in their finance condition that you know, part of the finance also they need to get builder's report done. And only then the banks will really ask for it. But normally we don't. So I usually leave it up to the buyers and I go, do it for your own sake, do it for your own due diligence. Because in my experience, when I was buying houses and especially older houses, I definitely did builders' report. But what I'm also seeing is a lot was a lot of new builds, especially up in Auckland. I do encourage those buyers as well to get their own builder's report, even if it's a new build.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Yeah, I I did I did a new build inspection, would have been a couple of months ago, and it all looked okay. I got some elevated moisture

New Builds That Still Leak

SPEAKER_00 6:43

in the house, and sometimes the just the standard moisture levels are slightly elevated if they've just finished plastering and painting. So you can kind of gauge what the what the baseline reading is, but I was getting extreme elevated moisture readings. I got my thermal, my thermal camera out, and the walls just lit up blue, so they were holding moisture. You get out to the outside, and you see that there's no eaves, so that's a bit of a risk area, and couldn't really see any moisture damage or anything, but there was definitely leaking happening from the roof, and that was two days after we had quite a large storm. So something was failing, whether or not it was the gutters filled up because they just couldn't handle the amount of watershedding from the roof, and then with the wind, it could have been driving it back up into the roof space, and because there's no eaves, that literally just hits the side of the dwelling and comes down inside the walls. So yeah, definitely, definitely get building inspections done on new builds because you are seeing well, I'm seeing quite a lot of new builds where workmanship isn't great.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

The corners are being cut, it's almost like the repeat of 2000 era.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely more safeguards, definitely, but absolutely there's it's hard because obviously property developers they're kind of they're trying to make money, obviously. The builders are trying to make money as well, but they're getting capped on you know how much how much like the labor cost is going to be on that dwelling. So they're trying to smash it as quick as possible. And it's also difficult because you go into a development and there's a couple of blocks, each block has you know, three to five kind of townhouses on it. Each block is getting built by different builders quite often. So you could have one set of one block with a set of builders that are great because the builders are great, and then you could go to a different one and it's different builders, and they've just tried to cut corners, maybe not cut corners, but try to finish it as quick as possible, and the workmanship isn't as great. And then you definitely see builders that don't really take too much care. I've done inspections, quality control inspections during a building phase where I was assessing, I was helping out for the engineering sign-off, and it was a three-story townhouse section with eight townhouses all in a row in Company Coast here, and there were about 70 or 80 townhouses being built. One block, you could see that the the builders were amazing. They'd spray painted out where all their uh bolts were going into the ground, where missing fixings needed to go. So they were onto it, they had whiteboards and processes and all that stuff, and then you go to the next block, and the roof had been installed. You go into the very bottom floor and the steel portal, so a big steel column. I'd pushed it and it wobbled and it wasn't attached to any of the timber framing. And you're like, how is this even possible? Because this should be fixed in place prior to the roof going on. This is a load-bearing structure, and it's not bearing any load at the moment. What are you doing? So, yeah, there there are definitely issues around who's doing the building.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

So, what happens in that case? Well, I mean Do they have to dismantle everything and start again?

SPEAKER_00 10:38

No, they it just needed to be fixed, so it needed to be bolted together and then strapped with timber. But the other parts on that were they'd not put solid blocking underneath the first to second level framing. So the bolts from the actual frames going down were just going into the flooring, they weren't going into anything solid, and seeing all these bolts poking through the floor, you're like, what are you doing? Again, this is a structural element of the build. You need to stop. They pulled out all the bolts, the foreman came over, told them that they needed to uh put in the blocking, they started putting in blocking, waited for the foreman to walk off, and then just started putting the bolts back in the same hole. And I was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing, man? Like, you can't do that because I'm there assessing for the engineering element of it. Yeah, it's just it was it was pretty eye-opening. They they got kicked off site, so that was that was fine.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

So it just brings a whole new meaning to the floating floors, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Wow, this is crazy because you know I did hear of one horrific story up in Auckland that was saying that there's certain builders at the foundation stage, apparently you have to have like a metal mesh or something like that. And then before you pour the concrete, the council has to come and check it off and go, Yep, the metal mesh is there. Yeah, and then the council comes in, checks off, walks away, and then literally grab that metal mesh and go to the next site and put it onto the next build.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

So I have definitely heard the story and done in Queen uh Christchurch as well.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah, that's terrifying. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah, because you I mean you can't really check. No, but it's it's wild that if they're doing that and it comes to the poor, surely there should be some kind of liability on the concrete company to say, you know, why are you letting them pour the concrete if there's no steel in place? And I know that there are some slabs that maybe don't need it, and the concrete guys, they just drive the trucks. I I get it, but it's pretty wild.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah, it is. It is. So just quickly back to the builders' reports and stuff. Often people ask me, what sort of report do we need? Because I believe there are various types of reports. There's verbal, there is

Written Reports And Maintenance Reality

SPEAKER_01 13:05

written, there is comprehensive. I don't know. Tell me about you and what sort of reports you can provide for the clients.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

So all our reports are written and they're all comprehensive. There's no kind of middle ground there. If there's a defect or something that needs to be assessed during the inspection, then it goes in the report. I mean, there we can do verbals, but I mean, you're not going to get anything from it really, other than if there are issues, you'll know about it, but there's nothing in writing, so I I just don't understand why someone would want to go for a verbal rather than a written report. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

I I love I love seeing builders' reports that identify future maintenance bits because I find that like as a buyer, you know, there might be no huge red flag, so you still want to buy that house. You buy that house, but at least you've got like a checklist or to-do list when you buy the house, going, okay, in the next six months we need to do this, in the next 12 months we need to do that, which is really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah, it's it is difficult on that part because it's so subjective. So what I think could be different to what the next building inspector thinks compared to what the owner thinks. So unless you're certain of you know what the kind of time frames are, you have to be really careful about saying that because again, different building products degrade at different rates as well. And I know that it's really common to get maintenance reports, especially if you've got like a two-story house, maybe, and you just can't get up there and maybe you're not savvy yourself. And you get a maintenance report and the the report comes back pretty clean. There's a couple of items, maybe you know, some lichen growth on the roof, and and maybe a little bit of paint deterioration, and you might get another maintenance report done in two, three years' time to see how it's going, and it's and it's fine again, uh, a little bit more. And then if you get it again, the rate of decay on that paint could just rapidly increase, and all of a sudden you're like, Well, why is this so bad compared to the last time? I've got another one where I've been helping with a long-term maintenance plan for a body corp and uh assessing what the different building material types are, breaking it down into you know their actual life, like the life of the building product. Uh so macrocarpa weatherboards compared to you know steel or colour steel cladding as well, colour steel cladding is gonna you know last probably 40 years, probably even more, but you know, whatever the warranty came on that, whether or not it was 20, 35, they can go up to 50 years now. Whereas the macro carpa has a shelf building life of 20, and you're probably gonna have to get it replaced because maybe around the 15-year mark, it'll start to cup and warp, and you'll start to see gaps on the cladding. So yeah, it's it's interesting how rapidly something can change because those weatherboards right now look absolutely fine, and they'll probably look fine for the next five to ten years, and then you'll see a massive deterioration over the next couple of years after that. So, yeah, it's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Okay, so with your job, what would be the favorite part of your day?

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Doing the inspections itself.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

I mean, writing the reports kind of suck, but I was hoping you're gonna say I love sitting down writing reports.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

No, I I mean I've been building since 2016 and I've been a building inspector for the last three, just over three years. Being able to bring all my knowledge of building, and because I've been a builder and I know exactly how a building is put together, being able to bring all that information and knowledge into my building inspections is really cool. The processes are exactly the same on every single inspection that we do, but every house is different, so that's that's where the the cool part is. I could inspect two townhouses in the same development, different blocks, and the inspections would be completely different. So that's that's the cool part of my job.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

I love that. And then I guess the the sucky part is when you have to sit down and write the reports.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yeah, it's not too bad. I mean, we've got processes in place where it it definitely helps, and it doesn't take too long if the if the house, even if the house has you know maintenance issues and and stuff, most of our reports are done on site. So I'd say, you know, 90 to 95% of the job is done on site. The cool part is walking around doing the inspection, I can just talk into my phone, it dictates what I'm saying, and then I can just clean it up on the computer when we get home. The hard part is if I'm doing doing a pre-sale, uh sorry, a pre-purchase and the vendor's home or the agent's home, you don't want to be talking into your phone too too much because you don't want to be saying all these issues, and they can take that out of context and kind of blow it out of proportion, I guess. So yeah, it is one of those tricky parts. If if I'm there by myself or if you know the agent's just sitting in their car or or inside, then it's it's great because the reports definitely don't take that long to kind of tidy up when I get home.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Yeah, it's how much liability do builders inspectors carry?

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Ooh, I think I myself

Liability Limits And Access Problems

SPEAKER_00 19:28

have two million in liability when it comes to our reports, visual inspections only. So when I'm doing the inspection, if I can't see it, then I can't comment on it. If something is discovered after the fact and I don't I didn't have access to say the roof space and there's leaking through the roof, and it there's no real visual cues that there could be from the exterior, then yeah, I'm not liable for that because I can't get into the roof space. So that's why it's so important to try and get everywhere in a house when I'm doing an inspection.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

I I'll tell you my favorite story. I always um mention it in the webinars and in my conversations with people. We bought a house in Parapurumu 10 years ago,

Dux Quest Plumbing Red Flags

SPEAKER_01 20:23

11. I always go by the age of my second child. Yes. He was born in Palmston North, and then we moved to Parapurumu when he was two weeks old. So we bought that house, we had a builder's report done on it, and then literally a month moving in, I come home one day and there's water pouring down from the lights. And I'm like, what the hell's going on here? Apparently, the house had Duck's quest piping.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

And it was never picked up on the builder's report. And yeah, just blew my mind. So we had to get um insurance claims, we had to renovate a couple of bedrooms and this and that. But it was funny because I rang the builder trying to find out how come they never put it on a report because then insurance said to me, We'll cover it this time, but going forward, we're not gonna cover any more damage from the DAX quest, and you have to change all the piping, basically. So I rang the builders trying to find out why they didn't and just bring it to their attention, really, to make sure that next time they are doing the report to do it a bit more thoroughly. And his wife answered and he passed away. So it was kind of awkward. Yeah. So I was like, oh, sorry, you know, sorry to bother you. No, nothing. I didn't want to say anything. That was that was awkward. So safe to say the guy probably got away with that one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

But that was that was one lesson I've learned. And I always say to my clients, make sure, you know, if you are buying an older property, double check the piping. Because it if it does Dark's quest, it's got a long history in New Zealand.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Yeah, I mean, it's a condemned building product. It's not a matter of if it's gonna burst, it's a matter of when it's gonna burst.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Yeah. And a lot of people have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

No. No. It is hard though identifying, well, not identifying it, if you can find the black pipe. You can only identify the DucksQuest if it literally has Ducks Quest written on it. Because there are black pressure pipes out there.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

That are not ducks quests.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

No. And there's acorn plumbing as well. So it looks black. You shine a light on it and it's actually got a brown tinge to it as well. And but that won't have DucksQuest written on it.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

So here you go, guys. This is a tip for you for those that are doing building inspections and you didn't know. Shine the light.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Shine the light. But yeah, I mean, if if plumbing is covered by insulation, especially up in the roof space, uh, that's a quite a common one. If they've like retrofitted the insulation blankets, so it just goes over top of all the ceiling joists and rafters and oh not rafters, yeah, then that covers all wiring, all plumbing. And so you literally can't see anything. And a lot of the time, and it is very common, especially in like ex-rentals as well, because they've had to bring it up to the healthy home standard. Then you get up into the roof space manhole and insulation is covering everything. I can't walk around up there because I don't want to put my foot through the ceiling and cause a whole bunch of damage. So I just do a visual inspection from the manhole. It's more common to be able to find it in the subfloor as well, because they won't really be going through, they'll uh have the piping clipped to the underneath of the joist, so they're always visible. So it is fairly easy to identify the type of plumbing in the subfloor if you have a subfloor.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

That's a good one to know. But um, yeah, for me, the insurance wanted us to get the plumber and to assess, but the plumber was like, well, the only way for me to assess if the rest of the house has this sort of plumbing is to actually cut into the wall.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Cut and pull it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

And have a look. And I was like, Yeah, no, thanks. Don't do that. And and we we left that house, we sold that house. We did say um to the agent that, you know, it's got probably dark's quest, etc. They sold it, and I believe the late the new lady that bought it literally a month into her living in there, the pipes burst as well. So uh so yeah, it's simple.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

It doesn't cost that much to upgrade plumbing, and for the amount of damage that it can cause, it's one of those things that you should absolutely do.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Do you know which era they were using the Dark's Quest?

SPEAKER_00 24:26

It's most common in the 80s. It's sometimes it can show up in the in like early 90s and and late 70s, but it's it's mainly in the 80s.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Good to know. Right. We talked about the plumbing, we talked about the dodgy building. What else do you see out there when you do your reports?

Subfloor Risks And Structural Shockers

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Common. I I did a recent building inspection, and the house was pretty good condition. It was a 1910s house that had been shifted in the 90s. So all new piles in the subfloor. So they'd done some renovations on the inside, and it was it was generally like well maintained inside and out. The issue was when I got into the subfloor. So when I got into the subfloor and the space was tiny to get into, and so I had to really squeeze through that access hatch. But once you're in in the subfloor, then it was you know more than enough room. There were bearers that were sitting on like maybe 10 centimetres on a on a pile. So that's a lot the bearer is the load-bearing element in the subfloor, all the joists sit on top of that. So all the load sitting on just 10, oh not 10 centimetres, 10 mil, sorry, of bearer on the pile. So that was quite interesting. Seeing plumbing cut through bearers as well, so 110 mil uh PVC pipe going running straight through a bearer. So that was interesting. Bora damage, that's it was quite significant. I could put my thumb through a bearer and it would just exploded. Wow. Um, and as soon as I did that, it was I felt immediately unsafe.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

So that's I was about to say the house could have collapsed on you.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Yeah, once once once you see that, you definitely don't start poking around anymore.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

You um do you need insurance? I know I know some people that can give you life insurance, you know.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Oh, I've I've got great life insurance. I'm probably probably worth more worth more debt to my wife than uh alive, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

So yeah, it's wow, that's a crazy story. So so what do people do in that case?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

That one's hard because one of the only ways to really fix that issue, they'll have to probably jack the house up. Yeah, maybe run new bearers where they need to, but either they can't really rip out the old joists because you know you don't know what's above them, really. So you're probably gonna have to strap a whole bunch of new joists to the old ones. Yeah, it's uh that's a hard one because the fixes straightforward, it's not easy, and the cost of it, I don't even know where to start. So that one is a bit bit more in the hard basket. And I actually don't know if the purchases went through with the Wow.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

We had an interesting one that we had clients do a builder's report and it showed some issues, and they pulled out, and then the storm happened, and the house was in Lower Heart, and the storm happened, and the house actually flooded quite badly. And they messaged us saying, Thank God we didn't buy that, because the builder's report identified those issues for them that if the flood happens, if the rain happens, whatever the house was quite in danger of it happening, and sure enough, yeah, it did happen. So those building reports that people get, they do actually carry a bit of value to them.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Oh, absolutely. It it's it's hard, especially in Paraparumu at the moment, because a lot of the sections are nice and flat, right? So you'd assume

Flood Zones, LIM Checks, Insurance Costs

SPEAKER_00 28:24

that any flooding it would kind of shed from the property and and the stormwater systems will you know take that load. And that's why you really need access to the LIM report to see if there is you know a one in a hundred year chance of flood risks and accessing the flood maps and seeing if the house is in danger because during the inspection we don't have access to that kind of data. It looks kind of okay, you know, it it might be a bit flat, but definitely see if it's in a flood zone. I do know that there are occasions where insurance companies will charge through the nose if the corner of your property is in a flood zone, just to get a little bit more. I had I did an inspection in Corory probably two years ago, and the the section was on a hill one on a s on a slight slope, and the house was at the top third of the section, and the bottom corner of the section was in a flood zone, and the owner, it was a maintenance report. The owner told me that their insurance tripled.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Because apparently the new data came out that their property is now in a flood zone, so the insurance company just tripled their insurance overnight, which was yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

So I've got one of my clients, he's actually working on the whole AI modeling for that whole flooding and stuff, because some of those maps are actually a bit iffy and they're not really right. Because if you look at it, like half of carpet is in the flood zone. Yeah, but is it actually so um so he's doing a lot of modeling at the moment of for the whole New Zealand, yeah, and water is actually in the flood zone, and working with insurance companies to make sure they use the latest information because a lot of insurance companies, and I remember back in the day, I rang one company and they were in Australia, they had no idea, you know, they're like, oh, well, there's a river next to you. I mean, the river was like miles away. Yeah, but because they were looking on Google Maps, they were saying they were thinking that the river was right there, so the chances of it exploding and flooding was quite high. So um, yeah, so then my insurance was doubling as well. And I was like, wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Yeah, we um we've we've seen an increase in insurance inspections where insurance companies want us to essentially do a report, say what the potential risks are, and then they'll use that report to say, yep, cool, we'll we'll grant insurance or use that report to essentially up the insurance costs. I did one in Eastbourne for a lady that uh didn't realise that her insurance company had cancelled her insurance. And so sh her house was uninsured for about two months before she realized. And they needed an urgent builder's report, they've they changed insurance companies. But the the cool part of that inspection was she actually works worked for GNS, so she did all the flood mapping and she was telling me that insurance companies, because it's all free data, were using that data almost out of context to you know justify yeah increases and you know whether or not that's true, I don't know. But oh culturally, that's why my client is now doing that. Absolutely that makes sense because insurance insurance rates and you know premiums and stuff is just skyrocketing.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Have you done much work with the houses in Wellington? You just reminded me uh after that, um, because that sort of died out in the news. You know how the sewage exploded? What is that place?

SPEAKER_00 32:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Ah man.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Out at Mower Point, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

And then apparently all the ship was flying to the houses with the salt water.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

I haven't done any inspections like that. Um thank goodness.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

But I've I wonder how that will affect the building and the cladding and stuff. Because it's one thing getting salt water blown on your house, but it's another thing getting crap on your house, actually.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah, I mean it can't be good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

No, and it's sort of died off in the news. I don't know what's going on now, but uh as far as I understood, it was still flowing into the into the water because the pipe I mean, I don't know. It may have may still be, I mean, it is still probably leaking, but levels might be safe, so well I wouldn't I wouldn't be sitting outside on my deck drinking coffee, I'll tell you that. If I was there. It does. It does. So a quick question for you in terms of if if you're buying a house for yourself, what's your preference? What sort of house would you go for personally? Knowing everything you know, seeing

Asbestos, Cladding Care, Roof Warranties

SPEAKER_01 33:16

everything you've seen, what sort of house would you buy?

SPEAKER_00 33:20

It is a great question. I actually don't have a preference. I guess I guess the thing is that I as long as I know the risks on a house, there is mainly would just suit you know what my lifestyle is. So currently I've got a young family, I've got two dogs. Ideally, it would be more like a lifestyle block for me at the moment, but in terms of the actual dwelling that's on it, I mean currently the house that I have half the cladding is asbestos cladding. How did you do that? Well, I know the risks of risks of it. So as long as I keep it maintained and I keep paint coding nice and yeah, I it's it's not a massive risk.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

It's funny you say that because sometimes I get clients that do builders' report and they come out to me freaking out, going, Oh, there's asbestos in the ceiling. And I'm like, Well, are you gonna go smashing the ceiling when you buy the house? And they're like, No, and I'm like, well, as far as I understand, I'm not a building inspector and I'm not a builder, and I always take that responsibility off me. But I say as much as I know, what has been explained to me over the years is that as long as you don't touch asbestos, like as long as you don't go smashing it, yeah, don't drill a hole and lick it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Yeah, right. I mean, you're not gonna do that. So hopefully I mean it definitely carries more risk being inside. The chance of disturbing like the popcorn style asbestos ceilings is a lot higher. You can't replace any lighting because you can't drill any holes in the in the roof and in the ceiling and stuff. So that is a little bit more of a higher risk, but as long as you understand the risk, like you said, it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Did you know in Russia they still um build roads with asbestos?

SPEAKER_00 35:12

I mean, Russians are built different to us the way, more resilient. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

It kind of cracks me up because in Russia they still use asbestos a lot.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

I mean, it's the crazy part is it's a fantastic product. It's naturally fire resistant, it's weather like enduring. You can see why it absolutely was used. It's just yeah, if you break up, break up the material, those fibers will yeah, it's massive health risk.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

So I'm still laughing about the I've I still got the popcorn roof in my in my mind, the visual of popcorn ceiling.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Well, yeah, it absolutely looks like popcorn, so okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

And uh in terms of there was another thing I was gonna ask you that we're just completely deviated to that. With the with the new builds and stuff, what common problems that you see in terms of cladding does there? Like, for instance, my house, it's got plaster, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:11

But it's not that monolithic plaster that's a monolithic style. Yes, but I would assume that it's on a cavity system, so it alleviates it alleviates a lot of the risk.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

It was only built two years ago.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Yeah, okay. Well, it definitely will be on a cavity system.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

But like I've got cedar as well, and that was not my preferred option for maintenance.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Yeah, I mean cedar definitely weathers a lot quicker than I assume that it's like untreated, but uh it's is it stained or is it painted? Stained, yeah. So yeah, you just have to keep on top of the maintenance.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

How often do I need to stain it? I'm getting free advice, guys.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

I would assume that it's every like two to three years.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Yeah. So you're probably due to get it stained soon.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Yeah, I got it um.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

It depends on the the product um manufacturer's like specifications on it and what was used and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

So I did get it ass sorted on one side of the house that faces the ocean because I found that that side got quite Yeah, the north and west facing the sun and the the salt. Yeah, I think it just affected it quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Yeah, it's it's funny because a lot of the time if you're gonna use cedar and it's I guess this comes down to a design point, you shouldn't really be putting cedar on the north or western face of a dwelling because that's that gets the most sun, and you're gonna get natural cupping and and just more rapid deterioration. So put it on the hidden sides, yes, you'll most likely get a little bit of like lichen growth. So cedar grows like a red lichen, it's really fine. Some people really like the look, but it holds moisture, and that's what causes faster deterioration to it. But you're not gonna get the cupping and and warping and and splitting on the weatherboards like that. So you can do chemical washes and you can buy that from you know minor 10 placemakers and do it yourself if if you want to, or you can get a company to come in and do it. But as long as you keep on top of that, that cedar cladding on the southern and eastern faces are gonna last way longer than what it would on the north and western faces.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

How long how long does cedar last?

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Oh if it's if it's well maintained, it could easily last up to 50 years.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

That makes me feel it probably has more like a 30-year kind of life, but yeah, it it all depends on maintenance and and my experience. New Zealand homeowners aren't great with maintenance on their own houses. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Did you know ANZ actually just came out with a loan offer, 2.5% for renovations? Wow. And that can be anything. So up to 50k, 80k, can't remember. I think it was up to 80k, 2.5%, which is really, really cool. So I'm encouraging a lot of clients that you know, buy a home if they've still got enough equity, find out what needs to really happen to the house, yeah, and actually get it done.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

The biggest, most costly renovation most often that needs to happen on a on a dwelling would be something to do with the roof. So if it's an older roof getting it replaced, half of that will be eaten up with a replacement.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah, because the rules are easier 25-35k on the average house.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

But with the newer products out there, so they used to have two products. They used to have Endura and Max, uh, Color Steel Endura and Max, and now they've shifted to just max am. But that product can get the warranty can go all the way up to I think it's 40, it might even be 50 years in some areas. So they what they do is the roofer will apply for a warranty prior to the roof going on, and the guys at Color Steel will assess the location of where the house is and you know the environmental factors, and then they'll give a product warranty based on the location. So, for instance, I'm in Upper Hut, I'm looking at getting a new roof put on my house, I'm gonna use the maximum, and I think I can get 36 years warranty on my roof.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

But what if you install solar onto your roof? Does that void the warranty?

SPEAKER_00 40:40

I haven't heard I haven't heard that they're I haven't heard a case where it would void it, but I mean I it's never really come up.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

So I mean interesting view though, because if they're walking around on the roof, fiddling with it, installing stuff on it.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

So I mean that would definitely if if they install it wrong, so I've I've I've just been to do an inspection on a house where solar panels were installed and the back the back bracket, the top bracket, the screws you can see some of them screwed down properly into the roof, and then some are screwed on an angle, and you go inside, and this is in a garage, so luckily it's not it's not the beel end or it's not leaking into the house or anything, but it's still not ideal. And you look up and you can see there's holes through the roof paper, and then screws missing the purlins, and so and during the big storm, there obviously was enough water to just be pumping through, and as soon as it made its way into one of those little holes, it just filled up the roofing paper underneath it. The roofing paper sagged, and I just there was a spare four by two lying around, and I just poked up and all the water just came spilling out. Yeah, I was like, hmm, right, so that's definitely not the roofers' fault because that's a screw from the solar installers. So at least we know, at least the vendors know who to blame. Yeah. Um so yeah, that would that would obviously be an issue and needs to be fixed, but the product warranty is different to the installation warranty, so there's two separate things.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

So if the product fails, then the it's on the supplier to replace. And if it's a installation fault, then the installer is liable for that, not the product. So they'll probably have to replace the product and the new installation. Yeah. So double the cost for them. Nice. Great being a business owner.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Nice, love it. You actually reminded me about I should check my roof and see if there is any warranties because being a newer house, it will have Oh 100% will.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Yeah, it should, it should have come with Yeah, it should be in your documents.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

In my documents, yeah. Because I remember when the roofers were installing the roof, and the guy that did my roof, he's quite experienced. He's been around for ages. He's very, very experienced, dude. And he said to me, This has been the longest roof he's ever installed. Yeah. Because it was like one single sheet that was just so long. He said he's never done a roof that long before.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Yeah, I was back when I had building company, I was doing a build and the design on the roof, the extension that we were doing, it was 120 meter, 120 square meter extension, and it was I think it was about 19 meters long, the extension, and the designer, the architect, had specified long run sheeting. And so this was up in Normandale. So I'm I'm not sure if you're familiar with Normandale. Really windy road getting up there, and you physically couldn't get A 19 meter sheet on a truck getting up the road to deliver it to sight. The only way possible would have been to get a helicopter.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Helicopter then. I was just thinking that.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Which is absolutely wild. And a massive cost that the owners couldn't afford. So we had to go back to the designer and get it split into two sheets and have a join halfway down the roof, which isn't ideal, but the lap was like a meter long. So there's definitely no way that the water's gonna get up there. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:33

Wow. Because yeah, the moment you said Normandale, I was just imagining the Yeah, it's right up the top as well.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

So and do you think there is sometimes a disconnect between what the architects design and what the builders have to deliver?

SPEAKER_00 44:47

100%.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

I I find

Architects Vs Buildability In Real Life

SPEAKER_01 44:49

that from No disrespect to architects, by the way. Because I do have some architects as guests.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Um I find that when it comes to the design element, they they love producing a wicked looking product, right? And as a builder, you definitely want to build that, but sometimes it's just not feasible. And the roof instance is the prime example of that. Why design a roof with a 19-meter sheet? Sure, it can absolutely go on the building, but they don't think about the process of getting it from the supplier to site. And then just the installation as well. Imagine lifting up a 19-meter sheet. You're gonna need how many guys on site just to lift it up onto the roof and just crazy.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

Yeah, I don't want to think how they did it here because you can tell how tall the houses.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Yeah, I mean, they would have just had a like a crane around it. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's there definitely needs to be the the best architects that I've dealt with and and I've worked quite closely with a few, they have building experience. And when you don't have building experience on site, you almost don't understand how it is to build the product, and it's really it's really difficult when it comes to that stage because then you're going back for more detailed designs. And the the best architect that I've worked with, when I was when I had my building company, he would call me up and ask how I wanted to build it, so then he would design it for that way, and it was really it was a really good working relationship.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

That's awesome because what I'm seeing as well is that a lot of builders' reports that come back are usually those the the worst ones I've seen are from the architecturally designed houses that haven't built properly, like the architect vision and a builder's skill somehow. Yeah, something went wrong there.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

It's it's always interesting doing building inspection on an architecturally designed house, and and I do the air quotes for a reason because it's not they're just always awful to inspect because when it's an architect architecturally designed house, they always try and push push the envelope, and that ends up creating weird junctions where a normal design wouldn't have that risk area, and they're creating risk areas for the sake of a look. But in an environment in New Zealand where we're exposed to coastal sea sprays, heavy winds, and just the different building products that we use, those risk areas are just gonna naturally fail over time. And creating a specific risk area, not knowing how it's gonna perform over time, you're gonna get rapid deterioration and it's gonna end up being an issue. It may not be an issue for a long time, and it may exceed the life of you know everything else around it. But if it's unproven, it's yeah, it's it's a bit hard.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

It's a bit risky.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

Evan, we've been talking for almost an hour.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

So we've done well. I think I should have you back and we could break down and some stories, you know, just really look into case studies and

Wrap Up And Your Questions

SPEAKER_01 48:14

see where things went well for people and when things didn't really go well. I would love to have you back. Sweet. So thank you so much for coming in. And listeners, if you do have any specific questions that you want us to cover, please continue to send them through to us. Would love, love, love to see what's important to you so we can cover it in our podcast. Thank you so much, Evan.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

See you again.