SPEAKER_01: 0:20

Welcome back. And if you are interested in interior design, this is the episode for you. I am joined by an incredible guest I met on the sidelines at school and other places. Sam MacArthur from Wildbird Interior Design. Hello, Sam. Hello, how are you? I am wonderful. I'm so excited that you're here because we've crossed paths so many times this year at the Electra Business Awards and you know sidelines school. Mumming around. And it's so cool because I didn't know that we had kids together at the same school when I met you first at the Electra Business Awards. So it's a really nice connection to make back and just shows how small why can I it is. Yes, definitely. Awesome. So apart from being a mum on the sideline, you run an incredible business called Wild Bird Interior Design. And today we're going to talk all about what you do and who you are. So take it away. Tell us how did you even lend it here?

SPEAKER_00: 1:19

Yeah, absolutely. So my husband and I were building a house around about four years ago. We were designing our home. And I said to my husband, I want to hire an interior designer. And he was like, No way, you can do this yourself. And I was like, Well, I just want that neutral person in between us so we don't fight. Let's be honest, if you're building a house or renovating, there's there is disagreements and you have to compromise. So he wouldn't let me hire an interior designer. He said, It's not in the budget and you're the more than capable. We've done a couple of renovations in the past. And so I was like, oh, okay, fine. A couple of nights later, I had a thought of, why don't I just study interior design? Because when he says no to me, it means yes in a way. Like I find the opportunity to create something out of that no. Yeah. So I said to him, Can I study interior design? And he said, Go for it if that's what you want to do. I said, just to help with our house, to be honest. So hold on a second.

SPEAKER_01: 2:14

What were you doing before that? What led to that moment for you to think that, oh, I could be good at interior design?

SPEAKER_00: 2:21

Yeah, good question. I was actually, well, my my my job sort of in my 20s was working for stuff.code.nz as an advertising consultant. So marketing and that was, you know, I was doing a lot of marketing and advertising. And then I wanted to get into events, so I worked for a local council and worked in the incredible event team that we had there. And so I was actually working in events at the time when I was started studying, and I let my employer know that I was studying. And so, yeah, I started obviously doing my studies, and then before I knew it, my family member approached me about a month or two into studying, and she said, Can we borrow some of your beautiful homeware that I had? I had lovely rugs and cushions and things like that that I had in storage while we were um renting to build. And I said, Sure, you can borrow it. And then again, another couple of days went by and I thought, well, I kind of see this as an opportunity to actually help her stage her home and actually kind of, I suppose, get a feel of what interior design is or home staging is. So I said to her, Can I actually use your staging job as an opportunity for me to, you know, practice interior design basically? And so I ended up purchasing a little bit of staging gear for her home and use that for our home once we moved moved in. And then that little favour, because I didn't charge her for obvious, obviously, that little favor turned to it turned into a bit of a snowball. And then before I knew it, I had agents calling me saying, Can you do home staging for me?

SPEAKER_01: 3:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 3:48

I had family members asking, Can you do interior design for me with our home? And my friends want your help. And then it kind of snowballed, and I thought, well, I need to start a business here. I can't just do it. I have to start a business and actually take it seriously. So I was working part-time at events and then building up my business. And having kids. And I had a one-year-old and a four-year-old at the same time. So, and my husband had just started his business at the same time I did as well. So we were in the trenches. Yeah, it was it was busy. Yeah, so just I guess it just snowballed from there. And then I thought, well, if I'm I'm taking it seriously now after, you know, a year or so, I was it had some legs, I guess, and some momentum behind it. And I thought, well, I set some really hefty goals and achieved them. And yeah, from there, from there I just yeah, spread my wings, I guess.

SPEAKER_01: 4:35

So you found your calling. Yeah. I I call this moments in life when you know you accidentally, accidentally, non-accidentally, fall into something, and then you realize how much you love it. Yes, yes, and how cool it is.

SPEAKER_00: 4:48

Yes. And I always thought in my twenties, I always wanted to own my own business. I knew that I wanted to do, I had it in me.

SPEAKER_01: 4:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:55

But I just didn't know what it was. And I didn't just want to go out and do something that wasn't quite my passion or my skill. Or so once I found interior design and then people started saying to me, You're born for this, I was like, Oh, am I? You know, but yeah, it's just evolved and grown ever since. Obviously, with a lot of hard work and determination, doesn't come, you know, doesn't get put on your lap.

SPEAKER_01: 5:15

But I think anyone that's ever run their own business knows you don't just wake up and have coffees all day and go to the gym and work out. No, it's a lot of hard work, it's a lot of sleepless nights, it's a lot of non-standard working hours.

SPEAKER_00: 5:30

Definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:31

Because your clients may need you when they're available. Exactly. You have to be available for them.

SPEAKER_00: 5:36

Yes, yes. And that is one thing I've learned over the years to set boundaries with clients too. Because I was sort of, especially when we're in the trenches of early the first year in business, it was like, yes, I'll do that, I'll do that, and I'll have it done by five o'clock tonight. Realistically, that was not it just wasn't realistic with two young kids working part-time. So now I've learned to set the boundaries and say, Yep, I'll have that to you in X amount of days or whatever it might be. So are you still working at a part-time job? No, no, no, no. So you're fully fully wild bird now.

SPEAKER_01: 6:07

Fully wild bird. Where does the name come from? Why is it a wild bird? Is it your nickname or no?

SPEAKER_00: 6:13

So a little bit of a random one, I guess. I didn't want to name my interior design business Sam MacArthur Interior Design. I just felt if I want to have staff members and grow the business, I felt it wasn't quite the road I wanted to go down, I guess. So the wild comes from when my husband started his business with my brother-in-law, their business is called wild contracting. So I decided just to take the wild out of theirs, just to for a bit of a link, I guess. And then the bird, my granddad's actually the birdman of Waik and I. Yeah, Mick Perrier. So he's he does bird tours and things like that. He's almost 90 now, so he's not doing so many tours. He's getting a bit old.

SPEAKER_01: 6:51

Hold on, is he the guy that wrote like all his books? Yes, the book man. Yes, the cow and the lost cows and oh my god, is that your dad?

SPEAKER_00: 6:58

My granddad.

SPEAKER_01: 6:59

Your granddad?

SPEAKER_00: 7:00

Yes, yes. Holy moly. Yeah, so I've always had a fascination, I guess, with birds. Not that I've been, you know, not to granddad's extent, I guess, but I've always in and I've always had that connection with birds, I guess. So I thought, wow, bird is quite cool. I can play on that in terms of marketing, which is part of my background in advertising and marketing. I thought I can play on that a bit more, and I am playing on that quite a lot. So that's where it kind of came from, and it's stuck quite nicely, actually. And people seem to like it, and I can, yeah. It's I guess it's not a boring name, I find.

SPEAKER_01: 7:29

It's something a little bit unique. It's something unique, but still has that soft connection to New Zealand, as you say, because we are a bird country, a bird sanctuary. Exactly. And especially being in Carpeti, the Carpeti Island and the Bird Sanctuary in Carpeti. Exactly. So it's kind of it all links, really. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that. That's really cool. So, how long have you been operating on your own now? Two years. Awesome. So, how old are the kids?

SPEAKER_00: 7:54

So, five and eight.

SPEAKER_01: 7:55

Five and eight.

SPEAKER_00: 7:56

Yeah. Nice. So both at school? Yes, both at school now. Five-year-olds started term three this year. So one drop-off is life changing.

SPEAKER_01: 8:04

Oh, trust me. Although I'm I'm only gonna enjoy the one drop-off for the next two weeks. Oh, really? My son is off to uh college next year. Wow. Paraparumus.

SPEAKER_00: 8:14

Oh, that's another ball game, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 8:15

Yeah. Exciting though. So that's gonna be fun. So you've got two kids at school, so that frees up your day. Yes. To do the fun stuff. Yes, the stuff you love doing. So let's dive into that a little bit. What do you do? Okay. What sort of interior design are we talking about?

SPEAKER_00: 8:31

Sure. So we Wild Bird specializes in kitchen and bathroom renovations and we project coordinate that for our clients as well. Because a lot of our clients are working corporate jobs in Wellington and own their own businesses. They don't have time to coordinate trades or design their spaces. So we do yeah, design and project coordination of kitchens and bathrooms and any other spaces around the home as well. We do renovations and new builds as well, and we work with the odd developers too. So yeah, we'll okay.

SPEAKER_01: 9:03

So you do do some brand new houses as well. So people want to like you had the experience of building your own home. Yes. And then obviously you designed your own kitchen in the end? Yes. And your own bathroom? Yes. And the colours in the ho in the house? Yes, with my husband's input, but Okay, because he is because so what does he do while contracting?

SPEAKER_00: 9:25

So they they're basically landscape builders. So my brother-in-law, who owns a business with my husband, he's a qualified builder.

SPEAKER_01: 9:31

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 9:31

But they basically do retaining walls, driveways, fences, yeah, anything to do with the outside of the home, they can do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 9:38

Okay, so you pretty much have inside out. Yeah, we do. Yeah, yeah, between us. Yes. I love it. Okay, and what has been like your biggest project that you ever undertook to date?

SPEAKER_00: 9:51

Uh, the biggest one would probably be in Martenborough. We did a home that was around about 350 square metres, and we designed the mainly the inside of the home. From obviously, there was three bathrooms, kitchen, there was a wine cellar, which was really cool. So we drenched the whole wine cellar in a beautiful, deep, moody green from the ceiling to the skirting. It was really, really, really cool. Yeah, that's probably our biggest one. And that was built by Elmdale Construction in Martenborough. They're fantastic. And the client was amazing to work with. Just any design ideas that I proposed to our lovely client, she just said, yep, love it. You know, she saw the vision, or if she didn't like something, she was very straight up and said no. And I quite like working with clients like that that are either like yes or no. And that means there's a bit of a process of elimination too. If they don't like something, we can go, right, move that to the side, yeah, like that direction. And she was very much like that. So the process with her was really easy in terms of designing, and she wasn't afraid to use lots of colour and wallpaper, and so it was quite an exciting project. And that she just won an award, a nationwide award. We got highly commended in the Tita Holmes Award for the project. So that was very cool. Congratulations. Thank you. That was awesome. It was great just to be. It's not so much about the award for us, it was the recognition. Yeah, it was more the fact that and the fact that I was we're up against designers that have been in the game for you know, three times the amount of time that I've been doing it. To be up against the designers that are quite well known in New Zealand, that was just great to be up against their names, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01: 11:25

Yeah. But also like, you know, uh in the grand scheme of things, you know, you're still a small dog compared to big dogs, right? That's how I see it. Yeah. And you're like, oof, I went against up some big dogs there, and we walked away with something.

SPEAKER_00: 11:38

Yeah, even if I can rub shoulders with the big dogs, then that's great. It just I think that pushes you, it definitely has pushed the goalposts even more for me now. That's awesome. Like determined to yeah, move and shake a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01: 11:50

Well, in my view, I always I have this phrase you know, you are the average of the five that you hang out with. So if you want to be greater, do more good, then hang out with those sort of people because they're the ones that will push you and motivate you. Yes. And and it's incredible to see how you started this little journey a few years ago, and then you were like, Oh, I'll just find, I'll study that. And then, and now here you are, and this is just the first steps as well for you to recognize for this project. And then, as you said, that's now putting the wind behind your wings to go, okay, we've done this, we can do this. What else can we do?

SPEAKER_00: 12:26

Exactly. Right? Definitely, it just it pushes you a lot more, doesn't it? And it makes you a lot more determined to see how far you can go, I guess.

SPEAKER_01: 12:35

Yeah, oof, I'm excited for you. This is cool, this is really, really cool. I can see the excitement in your eyes, and and this is awesome when people find a passion. Like if you are passionate about something, yeah, then I usually say then you don't work a day in your life because that's how I feel every day on a Sunday.

SPEAKER_00: 12:51

You know how I have with friends and that say, Oh, I've got to go to work tomorrow. I'm like, I can't wait to go to work tomorrow. Even if I am, I mean, let's be honest, being a designer, I think a lot of people think it's a glamorous job. It's oh my god, you get to fluff cushions all day or you know, not that I do that, but you get to choose tiles, you get to choose colours for clients. To be honest, running a business or interior design business, it's 10% of designing and 90% of running a business, pretty much, and not necessarily putting out fires because we don't work with our trades like that. We just work on the solution together. We don't ever put out fires, we don't let it get to that point. But yeah, I think in interior design, a lot of people do think that it's quite a glamorous job and it's I think the Instagram's fault, right?

SPEAKER_01: 13:36

Because Instagram just glorifies everything.

SPEAKER_00: 13:39

It probably doesn't help with things we post, I guess, as well. Sometimes it can be more of the glamorous stuff, or I do try and keep my stories behind the scenes because it's yeah, it is a lot of project coordination and you've got to ask a lot of questions, you've got to problem solve every single day. I actually met with a lovely young girl, the event company that I used to work with, her mum, got in touch with me saying her daughter wants to study interior design. So I had a coffee with her the other day, which is great. She's 18. And I I was really honest with her and said, look, interior design is an incredible industry if you want to get into it. I think it's really like overlooked. I don't think a lot of people realise that it can be a career. I didn't realise that, to be honest. I didn't think it was a career you could have, or at least owning your own business was not that sustainable, but it definitely is if you work hard. But I said to this young girl that interior design is there's a lot of problem solving, there's a lot of obviously designing too, but you've got to be sort of be able to quickly think on your feet and be able to work out that solution or troubleshoot things quite quickly, or if it's not quick, at least work with the joiner or the trade, whoever that might be, and work out the best solution. You just got to be a good problem solver. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 14:49

Especially it sounds like you are working in wet areas. You've got kitchen and bathroom that do require some crossover with the plumbers. Definitely a lot. Yeah, making sure that whatever you design works and whatever they design works together. Exactly. And the products that you guys are using, actually going to enhance the value of the house and not turn it into a leaky project.

SPEAKER_00: 15:14

Exactly, yes. And that's where I do love working with the trades because their knowledge, I don't have that knowledge. I love picking their brain about things because or I say, what do you suggest then? Instead of that product, they might suggest another product. I'm like, great, let's go with that, and I'll check with the client. Because at the end of the day, we're all working together to achieve this beautiful result. It's not just us designing it. We can't do the work without the trades, you know? And they they rely on us to have the design and the the drawings for them, so then they can go ahead and do their work a lot more efficiently, sort of thing. So yeah, it's quite well oiled machine. It's not just picking out colours and going, whack, that on the wall, that will look pretty. It's there's a bit of a definitely a strategy behind it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 15:53

Do you did you ever think about you know those programs that were running? What are they called? The renovation. Yes. What are they called? The block. The block. Thank you. Yes. Yes. Did you ever watch it and go, ooh, I could do that?

SPEAKER_00: 16:05

Well, we actually applied like m without my husband really knowing.

SPEAKER_01: 16:09

Okay, tell me more.

SPEAKER_00: 16:11

I think it was back in like we were renovat renovating our first house. So it must have been back in 2012, maybe. And yeah, a few people had said to me, Why don't you apply to be on the block? And I was like, Oh, I'll give it a go. So I applied and then we got through to the that round, and then we had to submit a video saying why we want to be on the block. And my husband was like, I don't want to be on the block. But I knew that it'd be quite good. Like he he would. Anyway, we didn't get past the second round, so that's okay. But I think it either would have completely broken us or definitely could have pushed the limits a lot more, and you know, we could have pushed our limits a lot more and you know, I suppose made us think a lot more, yeah, a lot more differently. But now, funny, funnily enough, I'm actually really good friends with Joe, who was on the block back in 20, I think it's 2013. Um she actually lives in Capity as well. Really? Yeah, yeah. She goes our same school as our kids. Really? Yeah, yeah. So that's incredible. I have to point her out next time. But yeah, when we both moved here at the same time to Wike and I, so um we became quite good friends and our sons are good friends.

SPEAKER_01: 17:15

So when did you move?

SPEAKER_00: 17:16

Uh that would have been early 2024. Yeah, that we moved once. We were built. Built our house. Only like a year ago in a bit. Yeah, a year and ago and a bit, yes. Wow. Our house build, we purchased the section back in 2021 because it's a lifestyle block and it was a massive hill that they had to cut 2,000 cubes of sand on the hill. It was a big project in terms of the excavation. So it took us a while to actually get all the excavation and that all sorted and build the house. So it was a bit of a journey, but that's right, we're here. You're here. And where did you move from? Upper Hut. Upper Heart. Yeah, so I've still got quite a few projects in the Hutt Valley. Yeah. We still do a lot of work in the Hutt Valley and across the Wellington region, basically. So we've kind of branched out even further. Yeah. And Kuperley's just such a cool place to live. Like we love it. The beach is fantastic, the people are great, just seem a lot more relaxed, and the hustle and bustle's kind of not there, which is great in terms of living a suppose relaxed life, but still hustling in business, I guess. It's got a different feel to it. It does, yeah, yeah. And we were both born and bred in Upper Hut, so we wanted a bit of a change. It's not too far from my family and friends. You know, it ticks all the boxes. So that's awesome. I'm really, really stoked to be here. It's great.

SPEAKER_01: 18:29

Because for me it was really interesting. I remember one time I was dropping off the kits and I noticed your car, and I was like, huh, that's a really cool sign. Wild bird, I wonder, you know, what the business is. And then I saw you again and again and again the car. I just kept seeing your car around.

SPEAKER_00: 18:44

Oh, the signage is working.

SPEAKER_01: 18:46

Yeah, so the signage absolutely works because I think it's quite a striking contrast of your car. I think it's white and black.

SPEAKER_00: 18:52

Yeah, it's like a bronzy colour. It looks sort of black, but yeah, it's yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 18:56

So I remember noticing your car, and then only until Electra Business Awards that you applied, I remember we started chatting and then it hit me. I was like, oh, okay, same person. Yeah, the wild bird, you know, and then you gave me this beautiful bird. Yes. And can you uh tell us a story behind this little gift that you give to your clients?

SPEAKER_00: 19:18

Yeah, so every consultation we have, uh, we normally it's up to an hour in their home. And obviously, you know, being invited into someone's home is quite a big deal, you know. If walking around, you you can be walking around their walk-in wardrobe, for example, looking where they're, you know, socked or and things like that. I like it's quite a personal service. So, you know, being invited into someone's home is quite a big deal for us. So I decided that I wanted to leave a lasting impression for these lovely clients that do this for us. So I just give them a lovely bird decor, like a little bird ornament, and they let they absolutely love it. Yeah. So the theory behind it is I always want to leave a bird in someone's home wherever possible, if it's a client or a supplier, that kind of thing. So this year we and last year, actually, my good friend Joe, who I just talked about, she is very creative. She makes, she used to do pottery and she does sewing. She's very crafty. I'm not crafty whatsoever. So I get Joe to make me Christmas decorations every year for our clients and suppliers. So they get a little bird. And I've actually got one for you today. So remind me at the end to give it to you. Thank you. But we always do birds. To leave in people's homes. It just leaves a little, I suppose it's part of branding too. Yeah. It leaves a little mark, and people love having a little something to walk away with. I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 20:29

This is such a cool concept. And again, I think because of your marketing background, you've approached it from a different angle. Yeah. Anyone else that just wanted to do interior design, they would have approached it slightly different.

SPEAKER_00: 20:41

Probably. Yeah. And I didn't want to have it heavily branded or anything like that. I just that wasn't the way I wanted to go. I just want to have a really subtle. It's very subtle. Yeah. They just see a bird and think, hopefully they think wild bird, or at least that's that interior designer that I met at wherever or she came to our house or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_01: 20:56

So I love it. Yeah. No, that's awesome. Thank you so much. Now let's talk about the elephant in the room. Usually when people think interior design, they think, ooh, that's going to be costly.

SPEAKER_00: 21:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_01: 21:05

So how do you get paid?

SPEAKER_00: 21:07

Yep. So we do normally do a flat fee for clients. So basically we have the consultation, and that is a paid consultation. And then after, well, at the consultation, we ask, would you like us to put together a proposal for all the work that's involved? Because if it's a full house renovation, for example, they need to know how much it's going to cost with our services. So we normally do a flat fee. That is based on what the scope of work is. But normally, yeah, we we used to do hourly rates, but we found a flat fee is much better for our clients to start with. They know exactly how much that is going to cost in terms of the design fees. It's not going to change unless they add on things throughout that project. There's always some add-ons, then the scope of work does change and the price does, you know, it get adjusted basically. But it is normally a flat fee, is how we work. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 21:55

That's really, really cool because I think it's one of those things that people, you know, when they come to me, obviously I'm on the other side of it, right? Yes. Where we have to give people money for mortgages. And often, you know, they're worried. Are they going to have enough to cover all the professional fees? Because you've got architect fees, you've got interior design, you've got plumbers and tradies and all sorts. So um it's awesome to know that there is a flat fee option because then that reduces that stress. Yes, and does. Removes that anxiety of crap, I've been calling Sam every hour.

SPEAKER_00: 22:29

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 22:30

She's gonna charge me. Yes, like my lawyer.

SPEAKER_00: 22:32

Yes, that's the thing. That's what we didn't want, is people and we didn't want to feel scared to send the invoice too when you do do hourly rates, because sometimes it can be like, oh, are they expecting us to be sending a 20-hour bill to them? You know, I I felt like that in the early days. So now flat fees are the way to go, and clients love it because they've got that clarity around how much it's actually going to cost them unless they add things on, then it will be a separate contract as well. So we'd always do a contract with them. If they do want to add on anything else, we actually do that as a separate contract and new scope of work. So there it's very clear from the beginning. And we've worked with banks in the past with renovations where the the banker has come to us saying, Can you please give us a full breakdown of what the the what it's going to cost? Because if we're project coordinating, we need to have that all broken down for them. So we've sent that to the banker and had things approved for them. So we definitely work with the whoever's doing the finance. If it's through the bank or the mortgage broker, we definitely work with the person to help the client.

SPEAKER_01: 23:32

Yeah. Yeah, it's important, right? Because at the end of the day, client is doing it not just for the fun of it. No, they're doing it because it's their home. It's somewhere where they want to bring up their family, might be their forever home, might be their downsizing, upsing, etc., to meet their lifestyle needs at that point of their life.

SPEAKER_00: 23:50

100%.

SPEAKER_01: 23:51

They're not doing it just to tick the box of, oh, I want to have a fancy renovation. Let's just tick the box for it. I agree. They're doing it because they want to create a space to call home. They do. And to feel safe and to feel inspired to feel like they can welcome their friends and be proud of the place they're in.

SPEAKER_00: 24:13

Yes. And a lot of our clients, they they want to feel calm in their home. At the moment, there's a lot of chaos going around. They haven't got a system going on. It's not functional. It stresses them out when they get home from their busy corporate job or running a business. So what we find is having us involved, we do that research for them, we present everything to them. They're not having to run around showrooms, they're not having to stress about what to put in the space. We do all of that for them. So we do find that clients feel a lot more calm once we've worked our magic. Yeah. And the trades work their magic. So they feel a lot more calm in their space and inspired. Yeah. That's exactly what our clients want. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01: 24:50

That's awesome. So five minutes of fame, or five seconds of fame. Where do people find you? How can they find you?

SPEAKER_00: 24:58

Sure. So we're on Instagram and Facebook, and it's Wild Bird Interior Design. Uh or you can go to our website, which is wildbird.co.nz.

unknown: 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:06

That's easy. Wildbird.co.nz.

SPEAKER_01: 25:08

Yeah. Okay. Try to make it easy for people, definitely. And how do you work with clients? Is it only carpety-based? Obviously, you said Martin Boro Martinborough? Yes, Martinborough. Upper hut. But is it around here or can you work with clients all over New Zealand? Like how does it work?

SPEAKER_00: 25:22

Yeah, we can work all over New Zealand. Yep. It would definitely we can do virtual appointments or if need, we can travel wherever it might be, depending on the on the project. But yeah, we can work anywhere in New Zealand basically. Yeah. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 25:36

Yeah. Okay. Sounds like I really need you in my life. I need to sort out my bathroom. You need a wild bird, do you? I need a wild bird. You know, it's really funny because when we were building a house and I kept telling the builder, the brief was, I really want a big bathroom and a bath to fit like, you know, two kids in there, or if I'm in there with the kids, like I wanted to make sure there's enough space. And he's like, Yeah, that's cool. And then they put the spa thing in and in the bath, in the bathroom. And I went in and I kitchen hot. I don't know. I don't know who was measuring it. But um, once they've installed it, because I didn't see the product beforehand. Uh we were just sort of given dimensions of it, and I never really measured dimensions because I was far too busy with my actual job. Yes, that's a thing. And I never really gone in and measured anything, but I can hardly fit in it.

SPEAKER_00: 26:25

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01: 26:26

So it's been my pet peeve ever since I built this house because it's such a big house. It is, yeah. It's such a small bath. Oh no, yeah, that's ideal. No, so now I have this challenge in my head. It's like it's a brand new house. I don't want to rebuild the whole bathroom again, but part of me feels like I want to create that space because, as you say, you know, if I'm running a business and it's a chaos, and having a nice big bath is my place of calm.

SPEAKER_00: 26:51

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 26:52

So that's important.

SPEAKER_00: 26:53

Yeah, see, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 26:54

And I wanted to giant one, and I didn't get it. But you didn't get it.

SPEAKER_00: 26:58

See, that's where one thing we've learned along the road, because when I say we, I've got a um lovely project support called Sarah, and she does all my admin invoicing, everything like that. She's fantastic. She loves admin, not like me. I love being creative and you know, meeting people and working with the clients. So we're a great team. Anyway, we do 3D renders. So when I say 3D renders, they're actual to the to scale. So, for example, we'd measure your all of your bathroom or have your plans, and we can do it off the plans, and we would actually draw up the whole new bathroom that we can design for you. So before we go and purchase anything on your behalf as well, you know exactly what you're getting because it's all drawn up in the render, and it's like a it's photorealistic as well. So it's really it's been an it's been incredible for our clients because they can see exactly what they're getting before we, you know, put the pedal on the middle. Yeah. Um, so that's definitely reduced a lot of the hesitation or the oh, is that gonna fit kind of thing? We can we can scale it to the render and we can change anything before we order anything, which is yeah, as I say, it's just been incredible. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01: 28:00

Because yeah, that that reduces the stress. It does. And as someone who is so busy in my everyday life, like I don't need to worry about that part because I trust the professionals to do the job. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 28:14

And then I go, Oh, cool, you got this. Yes, just like you trust your plumber to do the pipe work and things like that, and all of what they do, all their magic, you trust your interior designer to pull through and make sure that what we've designed is actually gonna function. That's the first thing. Functionality is first before we pick any tiles or anything like that. We get the design and the layout nailed before any of the pretty stuff. I love it. If clients come to me in the beginning with all this pretty stuff, I'm like, that's great. But what we need to actually work out is how it's actually gonna function. Yeah. You can have the prettiest tap, but if it doesn't work great, then it's gonna be your headache for the next 20 years.

SPEAKER_01: 28:50

We don't want that. We don't want that. No. Sam, thank you so, so much for your time today. I hope you come back and I hope we can talk more and in depth about things that you see going good out there, maybe even going wrong out there, and maybe even things like tips and tricks for those that are trying. Definitely. I'd love to. You'd love to? Yeah, decently. Well, thank you so much for your time and hope to chat again. Thank you very much for having me. See ya. Cheers.